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Osama

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I am looking for advise & possible reference site to read on the best setup for a new 300G reef ready glass tank with Starphire front panel. Tank will have no cross braces but will have a 3" starphire top border same as an acrylic tank. Your suggestions on:
1)size of each of 2 corner drain pipes ( 1, 1-1/2, 2 in ?)
2)size of overflow box & lenght of slots.
3) Size of return pumps in GPH. I prefer 2 return pumps in case of failure. Each pump can also feed one of two planned 6G. surge tanks.
4) Is it better to get 2 larger pumps & have them do the return also on my existing 180g tank that will be hooked up to the same new sump (150g size with agout 80g of water). This would be my preference but is it OK. My180 has two 1" drain and two 3/4 returns.
5) size of pipe on the returns of the new 300g tank (3/4, 1, 1-1/2 in ?)
6) Location and number of recirc. holes & sizes for inlet & outlets
7) Pump size for recirculation
 

liquid

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1)size of each of 2 corner drain pipes ( 1, 1-1/2, 2 in ?)

I'd go 1.5" for each overflow to play it safe. I like oversizing my pipe to minimize things getting stuck in them (like snails). :P


2)size of overflow box & lenght of slots.

Couldn't really tell you. You want it sized for whatever flow you will have coming from your return pumps tho (see below). I would think your tank manufacturer would be able to size this appropriately for you tho if you give them the flow data for the overflows.


3) Size of return pumps in GPH. I prefer 2 return pumps in case of failure. Each pump can also feed one of two planned 6G. surge tanks.

Typical recommendation I've seen has been that you want approximately 10x your tank volume going thru your sump per hour. So in this case you're talking about 3000 gph for a 300 gal tank. That might be overkill on a tank this size so maybe 5x your tank volume would suffice. If you haven't alrady done so, head over to http://www.reefs.org/library/pumps and check out our pump resources. That should give you a good idea of plumbing guidelines and pump selection and plumbing design.


4) Is it better to get 2 larger pumps & have them do the return also on my existing 180g tank that will be hooked up to the same new sump (150g size with agout 80g of water). This would be my preference but is it OK. My180 has two 1" drain and two 3/4 returns.

I would say this is fine. Personally, I like redundancy in case you have problems with one pump.


5) size of pipe on the returns of the new 300g tank (3/4, 1, 1-1/2 in ?)

I personally like using large diameter line for all returns as this will minimize any frictional head loss from pump to tank. Minimum I'd go with would be 1" but 1.5" would be fine too.


6) Location and number of recirc. holes & sizes for inlet & outlets

Not sure I'm following your question here. Are you interested in plumbing in a closed loop?


7) Pump size for recirculation

That pump page URL that I posted earlier should give you some good ideas on what pumps to look at based on the flow requirements you need. I've heard good things about the Sequence line of pumps and I've also seen many people use Iwaki's, GenX series, and Gorman Rupp's.

hth

Shane
 

Osama

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Thanks Shane
4) I am considering either 2 return pumps each pump delivering 25% to each of two returns in each of the two (300 & 180) tanks OR 4 pumps each 2 pumps serving a tank..
6 & 7) deal with approach for getting good closed loop(s) recirculation.
8: I have seen several pictures on this board for recirc with bulkheads on the back side pannel close to bottom & top of tank. How likely are these bulkheads to leak in a few years and then do we drain the hole tank (almost) to fix. ANy opinion on that design/arrangement. As I like the concept but I am concerned for the long term..

Thanks for the references on pump sizing also.

I am trying to get all my specs for holes locations & sizes etc . planned before putting my order for the tank.
 

liquid

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4) I am considering either 2 return pumps each pump delivering 25% to each of two returns in each of the two (300 & 180) tanks OR 4 pumps each 2 pumps serving a tank..

I think either would work fine in this case. The big thing for me would be to not rely on one pump to do 100% of the recirculating as if that pump goes out, you're screwed. heh

What you could do is use two pumps and have each pump supply water to each tank so pump #1 would provide 50% of the total flow from the pump to your 180 and 50% to your 300. Same w/ pump #2. That way if one pump goes out you don't have to scramble to temporarily reroute plumbing to compensate for a dead pump on one tank.


6 & 7) deal with approach for getting good closed loop(s) recirculation.

Probably what you'll want to do is to lay out how you want your reef aquascaping setup and the corals you want to keep and then design around this desire. Most of the closed loops I've seen for tanks your size have had at least 2" bulkheads and they've used Sequence pumps.


8: I have seen several pictures on this board for recirc with bulkheads on the back side pannel close to bottom & top of tank. How likely are these bulkheads to leak in a few years and then do we drain the hole tank (almost) to fix. ANy opinion on that design/arrangement. As I like the concept but I am concerned for the long term..

I have no practical experience when it comes to long term results of closed loop issues so I'm not much of a help here. ;)

hth

Shane
 
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Hey Osama, how have you been?

1)size of each of 2 corner drain pipes ( 1, 1-1/2, 2 in ?)

I have a single overflow box centered along the back wall of my 360 that includes 4 1.5" bulkhead drain fittings. 2 of these drain to the sump and include Durso stand pies. The other 2 are each plumbed directly to closed loop circulation pumps and do not include stand pipes.

2)size of overflow box & lenght of slots.

I think it measures about 28" x 6", and has black eggcrate along the top instead of slots.

3) Size of return pumps in GPH. I prefer 2 return pumps in case of failure. Each pump can also feed one of two planned 6G. surge tanks.

2 return pumps is always a good idea - if you have the room. I use a single Sequence 4200 return pump that moves about 2400-3000 gph at 6' head. I split the return from this pump up into 8 separate returns spaced along the back wall of the tank at different hights and pointing in different directions.

4) Is it better to get 2 larger pumps & have them do the return also on my existing 180g tank that will be hooked up to the same new sump (150g size with agout 80g of water). This would be my preference but is it OK. My180 has two 1" drain and two 3/4 returns.

You may want to use all 4 of the bulkheads as drains, and bring the return back over the back of the tank.

5) size of pipe on the returns of the new 300g tank (3/4, 1, 1-1/2 in ?)

I use 1.5" bulkheads for all drains and pump connections. This is fine for most of the larger pumps. However, there are some pumps (like the Dolphin 5600) that use 2" fittings. If you can, use 2" fittings so that you can always use a larger pump down the road.

6) Location and number of recirc. holes & sizes for inlet & outlets

My intakes for my closed loops are in the bottom of the overflow chamber. Most people don't do it this way, but it has worked for me. Of course, this means that your overflows must be large enough to handle all of the water being circulated in the tank.

7) Pump size for recirculation

See above. BTW, I would avoid high rpm pumps. They tend to run louder and hotter, and use more juice than low rpm pumps.
 

Osama

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Hi Mike
Good to hear from you.
Just yesterday I was looking over your posts of your tank and wondering how are you doing.
I am getting my tank from Mitch in Canada also. My 180 is doing great If you ever need frags free just stop by in Palatine. Your white coral frag & your Bailly slimer are huge pieces now...
Thanks for the info It is greatly appreciated

Osama
 
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I like the Sequence pumps. They are pretty quite and run relatively cool. I bought mine from Custom Aquatics.
 

Osama

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Hi Mike & other reefers...
1)Mike; Is the one sequence pump getting all the recirc water & the closed loop water Meaning all the water from your 4X1.5 inch bulkheads. Or do you have a seperate pump for the closed circuit.
I am going to go for the sequence pump.
2)Mike: If I remember correctly your previous tanks used Dolphin/amp master pumps I am assuming that you like the sequence pumps even more so.
3) I am not good at calculating size of returns I am thinking that 2 corner returns of 12X 6 inches in each coner will be sufficientI . I plan on having all drains as Mike did in each return I will have a closed circuit 1-1/2 drain & a drain to the sump of 1-1/2 inch...
Am I Ok with the size of the returns 12"X6".

Any one with other thoughts/suggestions please help. Thanks.
 
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Osama...

I use a Sequence 4600 (1/6 hp) as the sole return from my sump, which is fed by 2x 1.5" drains. I bought this pump to replace a Dolphin high RPM, high head pump that was too loud, too hot and used too much electricity (I think it was the model 4200, and used something like 6 amps). The Dolphin pump was great, but was better suited to applications requiring much higher head (e.g., pumping water to the first floor from a sump located in the basement). This pump also tended to cavitate because by estimated head of 12' was no where near the pump's head capacity of 30'. If I had a 2" bulkhead in my sump, I would have also looked at the Dolphin Ampmaster model no. 5600 (or something like that). The bottom line is that the best sump return pumps are low rpm, low head pumps. These pumps typically use large (1.5"-2") intakes and outtakes. For that reason, I would suggest using 2" bulkhead fittings or include extra 1.5" bulkhead fittings on your sump so that you can take advantage of the bigger pumps if you ever decide to upgrade.

The other 2x 1.5" drains (I have 4 total) are each connected directly to a pair of Iwaki 40RXLT pumps plumbed in closed loop fashion. Thus, the water exiting my overflow chamber through these 2 drain bulkheads does not drain into the sump, but straight to the Iwaki pumps. The Iwaki pumps returns the water through a pair of 1" SeaSwirls placed at the front corners of the tank so as to sweep back across the front of the reef structure.

Placing the drains for the closed loops inside the overflow chamber has advantages and disadvantages.

On the plus side, I can get to and replace, if necessary, the bulkhead fittings without draining the tank. In other words, if one of these bulkheads starts to leak, the tank will not drain since the bulkheads are inside the overflow chamber and isoslated from the main tank. This is in contrast to those that place their closed loop intakes through the back wall of the tank and separate from the overflow chamber. In those set-ups, one would have to drain the tank below the level of the intake before working on them.

It is also easier to get to the intakes (for cleaning) when inside the overflow chamber as opposed to along the back wall where access to the intakes would most likely be obscurred by live rock.

On the negative side, all of the water that is being recirculated within the tank ends up passing over the overflow partition. Thus, you have to make sure the overflows are big enough. Mine is about 20"x6", for a total partition length of about 32". The depth of the water passing over the walls is about 1/2". This amout of water flow can be pretty loud.

The other negative is that air bubbles created by the water flowing into the overflow chamber tend to get sucked into the closed look intakes. However, this is a problem that can probably fixed by the use of well designed Durso standpipes to minimize the distance the water falls into the overflow chambers. You could also look into adding some baffles inside the overflow chambers.

One final possible negative is that if your sump return pump fails, your overflow chambers MAY drain down to far to prevent your closed loop pumps from running dry. In theory, if your sump return pump quits, the water level in the overflow chambers will drop below the top of the durso standpipes that are connected to the bulkheads that feed the sump, and water will stop flowing to the sump. However, there should still be enough water in the lower half of the overflow chamber to feed the closed loop bulkheads (which do NOT have Durso stnadpipes). Ths water being circulated by the closed loop pumps should still enter the overflow chamber, fall to the top of the water level in the chamber (which should be below the sump standpipes), and feed the closed loop intakes unabated.

In any event, your plan to use a pair of cormer returns, each measuring 12"x6" and including 2x 1.5" drain bulkheads sounds fine to me. This will have slightly more flow capacity than my set-up. As for closed loop pumps, I would probably use a single Sequence or Dolphin pump as opposed to the pair of Iwakis I am using, but it makes no practical difference which way you go.
 

Osama

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Mike: Thanks for the great input. Extremely helpful assisting me in making a decision on my circulation system. I also prefer NOT to drill threw the glass tank back wall for the reurns. For the same reasons you mentioned I also prefer having the holes for the return through the overflow wall. I will keep you all posted on the progress...
 

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