Removing a DSB safely

[Anonymous]

I dunno, I lost every one of my acroporas, and just about all my montiporas, while I tried every one of the above things to fix my hair algae/ phosphate problems. When they decide they have had enough POW! they go quick. I should have taken the bed out as soon as I noticed problems.

 

[Anonymous]

What I have noticed is the rock on the sand is more covered with HA then the rest of the LR.

Hmmm.... - My tank only got to be a little over a year old before I moved it, but that's where I usually got the worst algae blooms too... - If not just right ON the sand then only up onto the rocks a couple inches off the sand...

And my sand wasn't getting stirred hardly at all. (A handful of nassarius that seemed to prefer certain spots to lay in..)

When I set up completely again I think I'll still go with the 4-6" bed I had, but will try a conch and maybe a cuke as well to see if that makes a difference. (Was after one/both before tearing down and moving anyway...)

 

[shr00m]

id like to get a cuke too... no seriously I like my DSB but its gonna be just wonderful if my tank just dies one day... everything is going really great my levels are always zero and this DSB tank has been up for about 1.3 years now.

 

[Anonymous]

What I have noticed is the rock on the sand is more covered with HA then the rest of the LR.

Hmmm.... - My tank only got to be a little over a year old before I moved it, but that's where I usually got the worst algae blooms too... - If not just right ON the sand then only up onto the rocks a couple inches off the sand...

And my sand wasn't getting stirred hardly at all. (A handful of nassarius that seemed to prefer certain spots to lay in..)

When I set up completely again I think I'll still go with the 4-6" bed I had, but will try a conch and maybe a cuke as well to see if that makes a difference. (Was after one/both before tearing down and moving anyway...)

I bought 6 3/4" queen conchs (along with a bunch of sandbed critter) from Inland Aquatics about a 16 months ago. The conchs have grown to about 3.5" and continue to do a nice job sifting through the top layer of my sandbed.

FWIW, I had a nasty hair algae problem last year that I believe was precipitated by a combination of problems that went undetected until the tank was out of control (eg, bad RO membrane, poorly performing calcium reactor, bad test kits, etc.). I detailed the problem and my efforts to correct it a couple of threads from last summer. Anywho, I finally erradicated the last of the hair algae about 1.5 months ago - without removing my 5" sandbed. To the contrary, I credit the maturing of my sandbed (18 months old now) as part of the solution. I also have a 4-5" sandbed in a FO tank that has been up for 3 years without a problem.

 

[Anonymous]

So with the newer thinking that sandbeds at least need to be stirred, is the trend now leaning back towards 'stirring' organisms like sifting gobies, sand-sifting stars, cukes, etc.? They were all the rage what, about 6 or 7 years ago, then when the idea of a static DSB became popular they faded out of the hobby more and more.

 

[liquid]

Stirring was always something either Delbeek and Sprung or Fossa and Nilsen recommended in their book series...

Shane

 

[Anonymous]

Maybe, but last I heard getting any kind of large organism that disrupted the sand bed (i.e. sand-sifting stars, diamond gobies, etc.) was a bad idea because it would disrupt the anerobic zones, as well as disturbing the sandbed microfauna. :|

 

[shr00m]

im beginning to wonder if anyone knows what there talking about.

 

[Anonymous]

I rarely do. Just ask my students!

 

[Anonymous]

I've got a really bad hair algea outbreak. My rodi is putting out 35ppm water, so I can't really blame it on my dsb quite yet. However, I am using phosguard and the algea still isn't receding. I'm led to belive it's my 2 year old dsb.

Since my tank is a 15 tall, I might just take the rocks out, take the top 2"or so of the sand, and dump the rest in the trash. Or I might put it in a bucket with some bleach water and clean it up. Dunno. Any ideas why I should not clean and re-use the sand in another tank?

B

PolyFilter, Bingo!

 

[Anonymous]

I wasn't planning on going bare bottom, myself...I was just going to reduce my sand bed from 6-7" to about 3". I am going to take this very slowly, and stop immediately if things look they are going south. I guess I am not sold on the benefits of a DSB vs. the potential risks, so I am going to go with a medium sand bed instead.

Chris

 

[tazdevil]

Ahh, gotta love the way and how quick this hobby turns. Before everyione with a DSB pulls them out, remember every other product that was great then bad then grea...... add nauseam. Lets see, first the only way to filter was a undergravel. Then came canister filters, then hang on tank filters with biowheels, then wetdry's, then bare-bottoms, then Plenum style, then DSB's. Look at every method, they all CAN work if they are maintained properly (canister filters would need cleaning about every 2 wks, why they fell out of favor etc.). So before jumping ship, like has been said before, if it aint broke don't fix it. Just keep up with your maintenance.



Hmmm, what's next, MSB's( medium sand beds)?

 

[DougBak]

The way I see it, one or two critters disturbing the sandbed couldn't disturb the aerobic and anaerobic zones enough to disrupt the nitrogen cycle unless they were running thru the sandbed like tillers thru a field.

If this were the case, the oceans would crash every few years in order to wipe out the critters there that disturb the ocean floor too much to allow the nitrogen cycle to be completed, unless they died naturally since the levels of ammonia, nitrate and nitrite would increase to toxic levels.

Sure, a person could possibly manually cause such a disturbance, but you'd have to move a lot of sand in a very short period of time to do so.

 

[shr00m]

my sandbed is about 3.5 inches... i likes it

 

[Anonymous]

Ahh, gotta love the way and how quick this hobby turns. Before everyione with a DSB pulls them out, remember every other product that was great then bad then grea...... add nauseam. Lets see, first the only way to filter was a undergravel. Then came canister filters, then hang on tank filters with biowheels, then wetdry's, then bare-bottoms, then Plenum style, then DSB's. Look at every method, they all CAN work if they are maintained properly (canister filters would need cleaning about every 2 wks, why they fell out of favor etc.). So before jumping ship, like has been said before, if it aint broke don't fix it. Just keep up with your maintenance.

Taz, don't forget you're only talking about the hobby. Vaughan was culturing/spawning corals in the 19th century using essentially empty, barebottom seawater systems. No lab uses DSB's to culture corals. It's always been barebottom, or sometimes for very short experiments, prof. Jaubert's Microcean. We haven't gone through the trend thing.

 

[Unarce]

In case you missed it, here's a thread with some good info:

http://reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t ... highlight=

I find it better to get hard scientific facts instead of he said/she said stuff.

 

[hillbilly]

Sharkky, When I vaccum my sand beds, I do so lightly without stirring up the bottom layers. I do it often enough (at water changes) to not allow the bottom layers to clog full of nastys to begin with. This method has worked well for me for over six years.

 

[Anonymous]

So with the newer thinking that sandbeds at least need to be stirred, is the trend now leaning back towards 'stirring' organisms like sifting gobies, sand-sifting stars, cukes, etc.? They were all the rage what, about 6 or 7 years ago, then when the idea of a static DSB became popular they faded out of the hobby more and more.

No one knows, I think. The move towards 'static' sandbeds made people not touch the sand at all, relying of seeded critters to keep the sand moving. Problem is , many people didn't seed the bed, and there really is no evidence that the little critters stirring the bed do enough exporting of nutrients to think we can leave the bed static without problems.
Sifter feeders moved out of vogue because mostly one guy said you need the little critters that the sifters eat, so don't get sifters, but I don't trust that guy.
It makes sense to me that if we are trying to lower the amount of crap in the sand, having animals that sift the bed would be useful. However, I still have questions about how quickly detritus moves into the bed in regards to how useful such critters would actully be in keeping the sand less full.

I agree with what Galleon said about bb in the scientific community. They have used bb for long time with good results.

There are also questions about the anerobic/aerobic layers of the sand bed and 'disupting' them. IIRC, you don't really get layers like a cake, more like micro climates in all different areas of the sand at all different levels, and there seems to be little data examining the effects of stirring.

I totally agree with those calling for caution in regards to removing sand beds. Remember: Ampmasters leak, we better get rid of them! Garlic/ginger is great, you better add it! Must have ozone! Must have UV sterilizers! Must have MH lighting for 14 hours a day! If you don't have GFI you will die! Carbon is evil! You have to run Carbon! Live brine is the best food ever! Melafix cures ich! Bristleworms are the devil! T5 is better than PC which is better than VHO! Must have bio balls! IO will kill your animals, you better switch salt mixes!
I wouldn't do anything drastic to my system unless I had to. There are tons of band wagon jumpers out there who will go first. If your tank is doing well, keep an eye on it, and wait to see what happens to the band wagon jumpers.
That said, I am convinced that sand is a sponge, but that doesn't mean I won't use it because it seems that wringing the sponge out makes room in the sponge. Think of it like a litter box, it works great till it fills up, then you got to clean it, but if you clean it a little every day, it lasts longer.

I think I am rambling.

:mrgreen:

 

[Anonymous]

Righty,

Are you suggesting this bandwagon jumper do nothing? Again, all I am doing is decreasing the size of my sand bed. If I read you right, you're telling me to do nothing. Am I correct in that assessment?

Chris

 

[Anonymous]

Chris,

Sorry! I don't think you are bandwagon jumping, or if you are, it is in little thought out steps.
The band wagon jumpers are the ones currently ripping out their sand beds because they read that someone had a problem with theirs.
I may just do the same type of think you are doing - removing a little bit of sand over time. I see no reason for a deep bed, so I may migrate mine to 1-2 inches over time as well.

RR