Bush Administration Wants To Add CO2 To Oceans

[wade1]

*twitch* *twitch* (refraining from acid comments)



Remediating an existing problem is an absolute crock of ****. When the means (purely financial, not engineering or science limited) are currently available and no one wants to correct possible actions due to budgets, theres a deeper problem.

Lets fix the flaws in our own mentality prior to killing the oceans by injecting CO2.

Wade

 

[Kalkbreath]

The majority of the excess CO2 ends up in the oceans anyway....[Both from volcanos or man made}..so to think that a "short cut 'would somehow change the inevitable outcome of man made Co2 ending up in the marine environment ......is short sited....And keep in mind that natural environmental releases of CO2 .....like volcanic and wildfires .....release much more CO2 into the environment the mankind........The California wildfires released more CO2 then all of mankind {worldwide] did for the last three years and ONE good sized volcano releases more then mankind does for decades.......... 8O

 

[wade1]

But were those fires not propagated by man's intereference? In reality they were entirely anthropogenic.

As to the ocean being a sink, thats not entirely true. There is a definite cycle and sink property to it, but its a matter of loading and intensity. You want to sacrifice all of the world's reefs in an attempt to mollify environmentalists improperly?

(This is beginning to sound like a sump thread!)

Wade

 

[Kalkbreath]

My point is that there is no evidence Co2 is building up ....Even the idea that the Earth has heated up one degree.....seems to be based on less then credible science.....any extra co2 is quickly soaked up by the trees and plankton .......{just like in our aquariums or green houses...} The slight increase in temperatures during the late 1990s seem to coincide more with the solar flare cycle then co2 output........infact the past three years are quite a bit cooler then the norm ? Places like the islands of Tonga had below average watertemps so low that it killed off coral......? And the 1970 were the coldest on record for 200 years of record keeping in North America.......even just fifteen years ago the Fla Keys suffered the second of two cold water events .....which killed off fish and coral........83 and 89.....The snow in Miami was kinda neat too! ........... 100 year old trees were killed ....leaving little doubt that it had not been that cold since at least the 1800s ....Imagine how much colder those freezes may have been ......if mankind had not been artificialy warming the atmosphere for 100 years prior to 1993? :wink:

 

[John_Brandt]

No Doubts Global Warming Is Real, U.S. Experts Say

December 3, 2003

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - There can be no doubt that global warming is real and is being caused by people, two top U.S. government climate experts said.

Industrial emissions are a leading cause, they say -- contradicting critics, already in the minority, who argue that climate change could be caused by mostly natural forces.

"There is no doubt that the composition of the atmosphere is changing because of human activities, and today greenhouse gases are the largest human influence on global climate," wrote Thomas Karl, director of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's National Climatic Data Center, and Kevin Trenberth, head of the Climate Analysis Section at the National Center for Atmospheric Research.

"The likely result is more frequent heat waves, droughts, extreme precipitation events, and related impacts, e.g., wildfires, heat stress, vegetation changes, and sea-level rise," they added in a commentary to be published in Friday's issue of the journal Science.

Karl and Trenberth estimate that, between 1990 and 2100, there is a 90 percent probability that average global temperatures will rise by between 3.1 and 8.9 degrees Fahrenheit (1.7 and 4.9 degrees Celsius) because of human influences on climate.

Such dramatic warming will further melt already crumbling glaciers, inundating coastal areas. Many other groups have already shown that ice in Greenland, the Arctic and Antarctica is melting quickly.

Karl and Trenberth noted that carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere have risen by 31 percent since preindustrial times.

Carbon dioxide is the No. 1 greenhouse gas, causing warming temperatures by trapping the Sun's energy in the atmosphere.

Emissions of sulfate and soot particles have significant effects too, but more localized, they said.

"Given what has happened to date and is projected in the future, significant further climate change is guaranteed," they wrote.

The United States has balked at signing international treaties to reduce climate-changing emissions, but the two experts said global cooperation is key.

"Climate change is truly a global issue, one that may prove to be humanity's greatest challenge," they wrote. "It is very unlikely to be adequately addressed without greatly improved international cooperation and action."

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=scienceNews&storyID=3934805

 

[Kalkbreath]

Too bad none of these chicken littles ever actually offer any data as to why they feel the way they do.........Or even attempt to explain away issues like why Europe was ten degrees warmer in the 1500s......Proven by numerous records of fruit trees and crops grown in Europe five hundred years ago ......crops that cannot be grown today due to too cold of a climate?If there were written records of North America and Africa in the 1500 I bet it would show like wise ....................and too bad no one was around to take actual CO2 samples in the preindustrial age! The reason they dont use the 1920sas a reference , is because there are records of CO2 at that time and its no different then today......even after eighty years of man made CO2 :wink:

 

[Jime]

There is evidence of Dansgaard-Oeschger cycles.

Just to put Global warming in perceptive, the hotest day ever recorded in Africa was in El Azizia, Libya back in Sep of 1922. There has not been a hotter day on the Continent since. In North America the hottest day was recorded in Death Valley in Jul of 1913. In Australia, the hottest day was recorded in Jan of 1889, In Europe in Aug 1881. In fact no temperture extreme record has been broken in any Continent since Jan 1974. In converse the couldest day on record in Antartica was set in Jul of 1983.

The irony is that we in this hobby use so much electricity and in doing so cause more CO2 then most other fish free households. My power bill is about 350 dollars a month, over 3 times that of my neighbors. (Power plants are a big source of CO2 emissions)

 

[John_Brandt]

It's not the record high temperatures that are supposed to indicate 'global warming', it's the average daily temperatures that are meaningful.

 

[Anonymous]

Argh,
Outliers are a normal part of larger trends...if tomorrow was the hottest day New York, Hong Kong, and Cairo have had in the last 300 years, would that prove global warming is true? Of course not, right? The same is true for these very short term trends you're listing. It's very possible for 2000 to be the warmest year on record, yet have lots of places record their lowest temperatures ever.

ALSO, a consequence of some places becoming much warmer than they usually are is that other places get much colder, imagine that!

I don't think Karl and Trenberth are trying to tell us how hot Chicago is going to be next week, or explain why the 1500's *may* have been a bit warmer in Europe (if that bit of "evidence" has any truth to it).

 

[shr00m]

after all the blundering i believe the genius will get re-elected.

 

[reefann]

I am not educated enough about global warming to make many comments. Just throwing it out in the discussion. We have about 12" of snow over in PA. Last year we had a blizzard. The year before that I think we had some good snow fall. We rarely get snow fall this early in the year.
shr00m, Has this plan been inacted yet???? How is this a blunder, it's simply an idea that was thrown out by the ADMINISTRATION. I would consider allowing the attack of the USS Kole go unpunished a blunder. But I guess thats the difference between you and me
JJ
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[shr00m]

so i guess you would have suggested waging war against a country you suspected the people were from? did you know that nearly all of the 911 hijackers were saudi arabian? so why did we go after afghanistan? why is the situation in afghanistan STILL unresolved! i never said i was a clinton supporter but if your a bush supporter your either blind, stupid, or have NO recollection of history..... Anyone who doesnt see whats truly going on should ******* open there eyes.

 

[shr00m]

you can also say the taliban were corrupt and all that, few peole would argue, but you cant argue that there are many other countries with very corrupt regimes... im sorry but we are not the worlds police force. now thanks to our stand in iraq any country can say "i feel threatened by X country, therefore we must strike first in order to ensure security in our country" now this would sound absurd if any other country was using this as an exuse to go to war, why was it ok for us? dont get me wrong, sadaam was a horrible man, and it is good he is out.... well now the country is in worse shape than b4, but thats to be expected post war. BUT as far as saying iraq was a threat to us is ridiculous! we havent even found anything, and sure it good hes out, but we cant hunt down every rogue regime 1. because its not our place if there truly is no threat to us. and 2. we do not have the money, we did have have nearly enough money to do iraq, my god do you realse if the money spent on iraq was just put to use for education? do you realise what a difference that would have made?

 

[Kalkbreath]

The war on IraQ was a long over due message and example to the "other"countries ...........Do you not think North Korea, Pakistan and Iran .....view the US in a different light now that we stood up took a stand for mankind? Sadaam was a convicted felon, who either had or was pretending to have a concealed weapon ......Just like someone entering a bank or airport.....Even if you dont really have a weapon.......if your acting like you do ......We have no other option other then to find out if you do! The United States winning World War two ......made the world safe for fifty years......because every country in the world new that we Americans would not permit world conflict............Sadam dared the US when he invaded and attempted to overtake another country......The USA made a mistake in letting the deed go unpunished { the world was watching} With so many countries playing around with WMD ......it was high time that someone stepped up and showed that even if the rest of the world does not have the guts to confront evil .......The U.S will.......and you might be next!

 

[shr00m]

thats fine if you view the US as having different rights than other countries, what if another countries EVIL, isnt evil to us, and they use this to justify war.... our pre-emptive war is going to cause problems down the road with other countries going to war preemptively to protect themselves. i agree, sadaam was a bad guy, he needed to be outed..... but the way we did it is whats going to cause problems.... the money could have been better spent also.

 

[reefann]

From what I have read 400,000 deaths attributed to Saddam, is that not a threat to the world.
No recollection of history.... The kole was what four years ago? I would have been about 12, so please remind me of history..
And please answer me how is this considered a blunder?
JJ
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[Kalkbreath]

thats fine if you view the US as having different rights than other countries, what if another countries EVIL, isnt evil to us, .

Then fifty years ago ......Japan and Germany would have enslaved the world.......And your life today would be quite unpleasant. If the U.S had not ended the ambitions of those two countries when we did.......They may have dropped the bomb on us........or released germ warfare into our neighborhoods..........We are at that type of deadline again......?

 

[shr00m]

remember how long it took us to get into ww2? we let lots of innocents die before joining, also, why havent we done anything about the corrupt african leader who has families murdered all the time? saddaam was a bad guy, but there are many other bad guys, either you are ignorant or just a blatent bush supporter or both? why did we choose to go after sadaam only and not one of the other many corrupt leaders which there most definitley were? why did we single out sadaam and the taliban if you dig deep im sure youll see the one thing they both had in common, plus bush had a vendetta..... you can bury your head in the sand all you want and try to make us out the good guys if that makes you sleep well at night, i guess ignorance is bliss.

 

[shr00m]

uss kole had nothing to do with sadaam now your using bush logic reefann

 

[reefann]

I did not say that Kole has anything to do with Sadaam. I simply stated Clintons earlier turn the other way logic.
And please How IS THIS A BLUNDER?
JJ
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