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mels95yj

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Ok, I've tried 2 other forums, with no results. My percula has had this for about a month. I believe it's lymphocystis, but not for sure. He's eating great, shows no signs of stress and none of the other fish have any signs of this. Within that last couple of days, he started getting a couple smaller spots on his fins. Any ideas?

Mel
 

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ChrisRD

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Hi Mel and :welcome:

I can't really tell from that pic what it is, but then again, I'm pretty bad at IDying stuff like this from pics...

I'll move this thread into our main discussion forum where some of our fish experts might get a look at it.

HTH
 

JennM

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Hard to tell from the pic. If he's had it a month I'm leaning toward lymphocystis because if it was Brooklynella he'd be dead by now.

Have you tried any type of treatment?

If it is lymph, it's viral in origin and somewhat akin to warts in humans - it's brought on by stress and usually once the stressor is removed, the lymph goes away. I usually see it on fins as opposed to on the body so I'm not sure it's lymph.

I'd try a freshwater bath, RO water to temp, 5-7 minutes once per day until symptoms subside. On fins I try such a bath, and I've often been able to pick off the dead growth with a tweezer but then you have to watch for secondary bacterial infection, if there was any damage to the site. I've had good results with this technique but it's usually for a single growth, and on an extremity. I don't think I'd try scraping it off the body because the risk of mechanical injury is too great.

Could it be a sting from a coral? Sometimes clowns decide to host in a coral that they wouldn't naturally host in, and it takes them a while to build up a resistance to the sting of their host, and they can look pretty nasty for a while - but a month is a long time.

Make sure the fish is getting a good diet, you may wish to try some vitamin C and/or garlic to boost the fish's immune system to help him heal from whatever this is.

Hope this helps,

Jenn
 
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Anonymous

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It looks a lot like Lymphocystis to me, there appear to clearly be distinctive 'nodules' to these growths. Yes, they do indeed most often appear on the fins (with both fresh and marine fishes), but I recently learned that they can, and do, appear on the body. They can last for quite a few months, rarely cause any distress to the fish, and do indeed tend to go away on their own (unlike human warts).

I agree that it's brought on by stress, that usually including water quality and the like. Jenn's suggestion regarding diet is excellent, Selcon is what I'd recommend, I've had good experience with the stuff. I wouldn't try to remove the growths, as I'm not sure how deeply embedded the little cysts are. If we were looking at the typical presentation then the fins could even be trimmed with small, sharp scissors.

I'm also going to point you towards my www under my sig (leading to wetwebmedia), and use the search feature to search on "marine fish diseases", "Lymphocystis", and "clownfish diseases". I think the Lympho FAQs would provide you with the most information.
 

mels95yj

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As far as treatments, the only thing I've done so far is 1 FW dip using distilled water for about 2 minutes. I didn't want to qt him and start throwing medicines in there until I had a good idea what it was. As far as stressors, I don't know what they could be. The other fish are LMB, Royal Gramma, and Lyretail Anthias. I also have a cleaner shrimp, but the percula won't get cleaned. He's always the first one to eat and he's not afraid to jump in front of the Anthias to eat. I use Garlic Xtreme, but not every day. I have Kent Marine Zoe also. Should I use that or get the Selecon instead?

The only corals I have are a Toadstool and Devil's Finger leathers. He's not scratching against any rocks, etc. The water parameters, that I test for, are:

ph = 8.0-8.2
nitrite = 0
nitrate = 10
calcium = 440
dKH = 12.0
temp = 78 - 80
SG = 1.023

When I bought him, the LFS said they thought it was not a tank-raised clown because their costs were cheaper than the normal tank-raised they got. Maybe I made a mistake by taking him because out of the 5 in that shipment, he was the only one to make it. They had him for over a week and was eating, so I figured I was safe. I had him for probably 2-3 weeks before showing any signs of this.

Thanks for everyone's help! I, too, thought it was lympocystis and that's why I haven't qt'd him, but he's getting more of it, and it's grown since it's started. From all the research I've done, it fits that the most.

Mel
 
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Anonymous

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When I bought him, the LFS said they thought it was not a tank-raised clown because their costs were cheaper than the normal tank-raised they got. Maybe I made a mistake by taking him because out of the 5 in that shipment, he was the only one to make it. They had him for over a week and was eating, so I figured I was safe.

Well, lesson learned (and encourage them to carry tank-bred and raised animals whenever they can, PLEASE!). As a matter of fact, when you consider the dead rate of those 'cheaper' clowns.. hhmm.. I don't know how they do their figuring. In any event.. This is also the reason for quarantining EVERYTHING that's going into a display.

Do some water changes. You listed no invertebrates or other animals that need to take up calcium, so in my opinion that's an unnecessary test. Again, water changes are all that these animals need at most. If you're mixing your own water, test it, too, and if possible try to get the water district's latest test results (it can be surprising what's allowed to be in potable water!). Just remember, we can only test for a very few components, that in no way provides the total picture of what an animal needs.

One thing, do be sure to have a hospital tank/container set up and ready to go. Lympho doesn't normally spread quickly, slow to grow and slow to go.

I do prefer Selcon, but there are those who use Marine Zoe with acceptable results. What strengthened my stand on Selcon was seeing it used at the Long Beach Aquarium of the Pacific (for the otters and seals, even!). The aquarists there consider it the best stuff for most purposes.
 

mels95yj

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Yeah, I know I broke the cardnial sin of not qt'ing him. Guess I learned the hard way. Of course, isn't the normal recommendation of qt'ing 2-3 weeks? If so, he didn't show signs of this during that time. The LFS normally only sells tank-raised clowns, but for whatever reason, they got these in instead. I do a 10% water change every week.

One question on qt'ing him. I've read various articles on the web about qt tanks. I've got a 10g system from Walmart as my qt tank. What does everybody use, if anything, for biological filtration? The reason I ask is I made a mistake early on qt'ing some fish, and ended up going through another cycle with off-the-chart nitrites. I lost 2 tank-raised clowns from it. Would have more frequent water changes of the qt tank w/out biological filtration solved this? Basically it's got a HOB power filter, powehead, heater and NO lights.

Luckily, I did come here. I was planning on qt'ing him this weekend anyways, but at least I know more of what to do now. Also, is this the Selcon you're referring to? Many thanks!

http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=AM1511

Mel
 
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Anonymous

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Yep, that's the stuff! Smells funk-ay, too.

Of course, isn't the normal recommendation of qt'ing 2-3 weeks?

Normal recommendation.. by whom (sorry, not trying to be a smart aleck, actually curious)? It's not my normal recommendation, and it's not what I've observed at LBAOP. 30 days disease free is what I consider normal quarantine protocol.

As for the QT system itself, it can be any watertight container. Biological filtration is often accomplished by keeping a sponge filter in the sump of the main display. This keeps a small colony of nitrifying bacteria going. Bio-Spira is another good way of innoculating a new setup, good for QT, too. The setup you describe is fine, but if medicating, of course, remove carbon and other chemical filtrants.

In absence of this usual method, water changes are indeed the order of the day. This is why I suggest to folks that they keep one or two large trash cans with seawater already mixed and circulating. It seems to be better to have it aged anyway, so, just keep them covered with a powerhead, and maybe a heater dropped in the day before you plan to do a w/c.
 

mels95yj

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seamaiden":jrlh3sxp said:
Normal recommendation.. by whom (sorry, not trying to be a smart aleck, actually curious)? It's not my normal recommendation, and it's not what I've observed at LBAOP. 30 days disease free is what I consider normal quarantine protocol.

Hey, no problem. Here's one site that says 2-3 weeks. I'm not saying they're right and you're wrong, but it's just one that I've come across. I guess the longer the better. It's just when you're starting out and reading everything you come across, some things just stick in your mind.

http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/diseasequarqt/a/aa041398.htm

Ok, thanks for the help on the Selcon and qt'ing. One other question on the bio filtration. I've got a Millennium 3000 HOB on my main tank that has 2 biological cartridges in it. Could I just one of those in the qt tank? Would I just place it in the cheapo HOB or place it in the tank? How about placing some smaller, rubble pieces of LR in the qt tank since I'm not going to be medicating? That is because there's no "medical cure" for lympocystis, right? Thanks again.

Mel
 

mels95yj

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Ok, I remember seeing somewhere that the person setup a qt tank and for the biological filtration they stuck some bio-balls under an upside-down tupperware container with holes in it. They stuck a powerhead in the top of the container. Would this be a good option for me and the cartridge?

I will be starting the qt tank with some main tank water when I do a water change. I'll also do a water change on the qt tank water. Thanks again.

Mel

Ok, here's the article showing what I described.

http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/quarantinetanks.html
 

Ben1

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Can you give us some specs on the main display? Sorry if I missed them.

What size is the tank?
Skimmer?
Sump?
Carbon in the HOB?
How long has it been set up w/ how much LR, is it BB or does it have a sandbed?
 

mels95yj

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It's a 46g bowfront. I've got 60lbs LS and 30lbs of LR. No sump. Millennia 3000 HOB filter and Aqua C Remora skimmer. Right now I'm not running carbon in the filter. The tank has been up for app. 4 months, maybe 5.

Mel
 

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