Starting a new Saltwater Tank

[Anonymous]

I didn't say you don't need a heater just that I don't use one. I have this big noisy expensive thing that keeps my livingroom at 75 degrees year round.

I guess I was just looking for opinions on what I should be doing. I don't understand why you would post what you do unless you were recommending it. I'm really glad I have several opinions but I think I would have been smart enough to get a heater anyway.

How does your water stay at 80 when the lights are off with no heater?

the lights heat up the water during the day. they are on from 6am to 11 pm. So I guess the 7 hour off time is not enough time for the 55g system to cool down more than a couple of degrees.

I can't afford to keep my house at 75 in the winter, I let it get down to 65 at night. I guess that's hard to understand for someone in Alabama.

Understand. I was raised in Des Moines Iowa and spent 6 years in Rapid City South Dakota. I delivered papers as a kid in Des Moines in -25 degree actual temperature. In South dakota chill factors got down to -85 (minus eighty five for anyone who thinks that was a typo LOL). So the room there with my FW and simple FO salt tank was sometimes much lower the 65 degrees. No heaters used and no fish lost. After all florida waters do get down below 50 degrees in the winter.

What kind of plants should I be getting? Do they go in before or after the cycle?

I have found the easiet is chaetomorphia (sp LOL. chaeto), and caulerpa profilera. Grape and feather caulerpa seem to require higher lighting.

I would put them in as the first thing after getting the tank full of water. By consuming ammonia directly they reduce or eliminate the ammonia and nitrIte spikes. There can be a small (10-20ppm) spike in nitrates when they find ammonia to consume. In ammonia free established system the nitrate is all that is available. But they consume ammonia first when it is available.

If you get the plant life thriving it will simply expand as you add bioload. And of course you add the bioload slowly. But the result with thriving plant life is little or no parameter spikes, vastly reduced or eliminated nusiance algaes, and a system that is extremely tollerant any "bumps in the night". In other words a mature system very quickly.

But still wait at least three weeks before adding any fish. that way fish borne parasites like ich can die off for lack of a host fish.

 

[liquid]

vastly reduced or eliminated nusiance algaes

I disagree. I have macros growing in my main tank (someplace I wish I had *never* put it) and I still have nuisance algae growing. I have seen no percievable difference in its growth rate. And once macros root in your main tank its next to impossible to remove them as they will keep coming back. This is especially bad if you want to keep SPS as it's a *huge* pita to try picking macros off your prize Acropora.

Just as a fyi: macroalgae growth on a reef is usually coined as eutrophication. Normally herbivores keep it in check but it can get out of hand fast. I would not rely on it as a primary means of export. We're trying to export more than nitrates and phosphates. We're also trying to export chem warfare toxins between competing species of coral, organics, tannins, etc. And btw macros will tend to turn your water yellow due to the tannins they emit. Running carbon will fix this though.

An interesting article on eutrophication: http://www.nacri.org/greylit/GastNutrPollWorkshop.html

Shane

 

[Anonymous]

Looks like you have some great advice here.

In summary:
Just use the strip light instead of the MH
Start the Skimmer right away
150-200 watts of heater (I recommend a pair of 100's)
Your filtration is right on but you'll need good waterflow
Algae like Caulerpa can become invasive in the display tank
RO water is the best way to go
If Beaslbob does something then do the opposite for best results (just ask him how many fish, anemone, corals, etc. have died in his care in the past 2 years!)

 

[Tackett]

If I were you this is EXACTLY what I would do.

1. Since you are just starting I would do what you are doing now and do ALOT of research and reading before you dive headfirst (pat on the back for that. )

2. Use the live rock and the sandbed. That is always a good idea.

3. Get the biggest heater you can get your hands on. Reason being this: The larger the heater, the faster it will compensate for temperature drops in the tank. It will keep your water more stable. If you already have a 200 watt or so heater, then ok, 200 will work, but bigger is better. But if you havent already got one, surf the net for some monster heaters (I had 300 watt in mine and I wished it was bigger.) you can get them for fairly cheap. Get the biggest that your budget will allow. But remember, If you get one that is oversized the temperature setting on them wont be accurate (I.e to keep the tank at 78, you may have to set the heater on like 60 degrees.) Shoot for a temp of 76-78 degrees feirenheit for your tank. (I hate that word, I know its not spelled right.)

3. I dont really know much of the cpr skimmers, If the other guys (who are way smarter then me btw.) say they are good then cool. However, if you dont yet have a skimmer, read about the different models and their differences (venturi, countercurrent, etc.) and the advantages and disadvantages. (actually do this anyways ) Again in this department I would get the biggest freakin one you can get your hands on, dont skimp on this part it will save your ass in the future. This is a rule of thumb for future aquariums too.

4. Lights, I also agree with Magilla. Store your MH for now, but when you purchase future critters MAKE SURE that you do research before you buy them (dont ever buy anything without knowing what it is, though we are all guilty of it.) Make sure you know the lighting requirements, critters that need high light levels from the MH will not suvive on your strip lights. I would put the MH in the garage for this reason: It is one more hassle that you don't quite yet need, get going first and get your water up to par, and know what you are doing first, then worry about the light.

5. DO NOT use tap water, regardless. I say this for your warning because tap water (declorinized or not) usually sucks for a bunch of reasons. Even if you never have monster algae blooms using it, it is a pain because you dont ever know exactly what is in it or what you are dealing with. I cant afford an RO/DI unit. (reverse osmosis, Deionizer, they will filter all water to about 99.9% pure, something else for you to read up on) And because I cant afford one, I buy it. You can buy it at your local grocery store or Wal-mart. Look at the label though, there is a difference between distilled and R/O. Pick up the water bottle and look at the label on the front, It will have in small print something that looks like: Filtered by-reverse osmosis, deionization, and UV sterilization. Something to that tune. As long as it says "reverse osmosis, deionization" that is what you need to get. It is cheap, about 60cents a gallon.

6. Water changes, water changes, water changes, water changes, WATER CHANGES. I cant stress it enough. Some people can get buy without them. (though I will never be one of those people.) Change as much water as frequently and consistantly as possible on a schedule so your animals can adapt. Here is how I handle mine: I went to wal-mart and bought a trash can that was about 13 gallons or so. Every thursday, I go to the store and pick up 10 gallons of the afore mentioned water. I take it home and fill up my trash can with all 10 gallons. I use oceanic salt for my changes, If I were you I would not mess with anything but Instant Ocean (the "REEF CRYSTALS" version, not the normal one with the clownfish on the front. Instant ocean, Reef crystals will say "reef crystals." on the front) or oceanic, not to say the other ones are bad, but these two have been tried a lot with a lot of success, especially instant ocean. Anyways, I use the salt and mix up the water to the desired salinity (you have to buy a hydrometer if you didnt already know. I recommend the deep six hydrometer. If you dont have one, then I can mail you one if you really need it, I have an extra. 1.020-1.023 is the magic number.) Ok back to topic. I mix the salt in the water, not the water in the salt. Let me repeat this; mix the salt in the water, not the water in the salt. (meaning pour the water first, then add the salt.) This is important, a extremely high salinity can cause calcium to parcipitate and lower your pH to death-on-contact levels. After I have the salt mixed up and it is all ready to go, I DO NOT add it yet. I put two small powerheads (Id mail you those if I had any extras.) In the trash can and run them with the bubbles turned on (the instructions will tell you how to do this, if you dont know.) I Let it aereate overnight. Friday after work I change 10 gallons out (using two 5 gallon buckets) and put the new 10 gallons in. I do this EVERY week like clockwork. I know it sounds like a lot of work, but it isnt. All in all it takes me about an hour to mix it (that includes trip-to-store time.) and about 15 minutes to siphon the water. Now, you don't need to change 10 gallons of water like me, I have a 55 gallon. But you can probably get away with 5 gallons or even 3. (10-20 percent of your total tank water.) But the key is: do it consistantly on a schedule or you are asking for it.

I hope that this helps, and i hope I didnt just confuse the hell out of you, I have a tendency to ramble. Anymore questions and we will be glad to help. Best of luck to ya bro!

 

[fishfanatic2]

If you get the plant life thriving it will simply expand as you add bioload. And of course you add the bioload slowly. But the result with thriving plant life is little or no parameter spikes, vastly reduced or eliminated nusiance algaes, and a system that is extremely tollerant any "bumps in the night". In other words a mature system very quickly.

But still wait at least three weeks before adding any fish. that way fish borne parasites like ich can die off for lack of a host fish.

The problem is that the plant life usually expands too much. It is a very risky thing to attempt to do. Its kind of like purposely putting Valonia in your tank and then saying "It'll never get out of control". In the end, both species of algae are accomplishing the same task in exporting nutrients out of the water, and both spread like weeds when given the chance. Also, with the correct use of live rock and filtration/skimmation, when will you have a parameter spike? The cons of eutrophication (thanx for the new word! ) clearly are outweighing the pros here. Waiting the extra few weeks for a 'mature tank' can be very beneficial in the long run. The best things come to those who wait for them. :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

Thank you all for your help. This is really great!

I found Reef Crystals yesterday and bought a bucket along with some live rock, two 100 watt heaters, and Carribsea sand. It's expensive stuff but it should last a while, right?

So I now have sand, rock and saltwater in the tank. The tank also came with a refractometer and an aquaclear 880 powerhead. The sand is all stirred up and settling on the rocks. It it ok to point the powerhead at the rocks to blow the sand off? Will the sand settle down? How do I hide the heaters?

 

[Tackett]

dang it came with a refract? I would like to have one myself. I would put that powerhead in the back of the tank, closest to the middle that you can get it and point it at the front glass. Then stack rock around it and in front leaving the outlet exposed to hide it, if that makes any sense. It wont hurt the sand to get jostled around abit, soon enough it will settle down. Can you get a picture of how you have it set up? that would help out alot with input for you.

I would hide the heaters the same way I told you to hide the powerhead, except make sure that you can get to them to adjust them, the powerhead not so much. After you get everything set up, you shouldnt have to screw with it, you got a thermometer right? like I said shoot for about 78 degrees or so. What water did you end up using to mix your salt with?

 

[Anonymous]

heaters can be hidden in an external sump/refug. I hid a powerhead in my in tank refug so a heater could be hidden as well.

I highly recommend you set up a system to emmunlate guy's system. He has a large refugium chocked full of macros and xenias. Additionaly, until a few months ago,he used his well water. So by having a large refugium full of plant life and using your tap water you can have all the awesome tanks and experiences he has enjoyed.

 

[fishfanatic2]

Thank you all for your help. This is really great!

I found Reef Crystals yesterday and bought a bucket along with some live rock, two 100 watt heaters, and Carribsea sand. It's expensive stuff but it should last a while, right?

So I now have sand, rock and saltwater in the tank. The tank also came with a refractometer and an aquaclear 880 powerhead. The sand is all stirred up and settling on the rocks. It it ok to point the powerhead at the rocks to blow the sand off? Will the sand settle down? How do I hide the heaters?

The key here is patience-the sand will eventually settle down even though it may take a while. It is ok to point the powerhead at the rock to blow it off. Take advantage of the refractometer, Im surprised it came with the tank. Also, I have found that the heaters will a)get covered by coralline and look fine, or b)they kind of blend in with the system. If you really dont like the look of them, you could hide them behind the aquascaping. This is assuming that you don't have a sump-if you do, then of course you could put them in there.

HTH

 

[Anonymous]

The tank was used and the guy threw in a bunch of stuff.

Beaslbob, I'm not going to be able to do an "external sump/refug". They sound great though. Maybe sometime in the future I can get one going.

Thanks for the rock stack suggestion. I don't have enough yet, I'll have to get some more. I used distilled water from Walmart because I don't have the water filter yet. I read that salinity should be at 1.025, is that right?

 

[Tackett]

1.025 will do the job. Eventually shoot for about 1.024 (is ideal.) Did the wal-mart water say it was reverse osmosis on the label?

 

[Anonymous]

No. It said distilled. I thought Distilled was as pure as RO. Was that wrong?

 

[Anonymous]

I hide my heater in the output section of my bakpack. You don't see it from the tank then.

welcome to a great hobby.

B

 

[Tackett]

I dont think distilled and RO water is the same thing, As far as i know, distillation and reverse osmosis are two different things, regardless, go to your lfs (local fish store) and purchase a phosphate test kit and check your source water for phosphates, if it doesnt have any, then go ahead and continue using it, it shouldnt be a problem in that case.
If you dont have a local fish store then Ill find you a link to a decent test kit.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/p ... 2004&Nty=1

there ya go, 10 beans.

 

[fishfanatic2]

Even if distilled an RO are different, does it really make a difference in the goal that you're trying to achieve i.e. pure water?

 

[Tackett]

true, its just that i dont know much about distilling, therefore i dont really know what im getting, wheras I know reverse osmosis and know what im getting in that department, if that makes any sense. But regardless, pure water is pure water you are right.

 

[Anonymous]

Additionaly, until a few months ago,he used his well water. So by having a large refugium full of plant life and using your tap water you can have all the awesome tanks and experiences he has enjoyed.

Sending well water though a Kalk reactor will cause heavy metals and many other impurities to precipitate. I'm satisfied with that as fact. Nowhere do I see Beaslbob recommend using Calcium hydroxide to purify tap water. He actually has the ignorance to state that it's healthy for a reef tank. This just proves that he's a fake.

In addition, the reason I switched back to RO water is the ungodly amount of black, green, and blue precipitate I removed from my settling chamber. It was very eye opening how much Copper, Tin, Zinc, etc, was in my water. I realized that these toxins would be entering my reef system if I ever added an insufficient amount of Calcium hydroxide to my Kalk reactor. This was totally unacceptable so I purchased another RO and hooked it up. I sleep a lot better at night now knowing that I've protected my system.

Buy the RO, all responsible, experienced reefkeepers will advise this. Anyone who doesn't should be blacklisted IMO.

As I stated before - if you want to know the results an inexperienced reefkeeper can expect from using tap water just ask Beaslbob how many animals, including fish, corals, Anemone, etc., have perished in his system in just the past two years of his "12" :roll: years experience.

 

[Fozza]

Buy the RO, all responsible, experienced reefkeepers will advise this. Anyone who doesn't should be blacklisted IMO.

Complete and utter arrogance, nothing less.

 

[Anonymous]

So you are one of the experienced reefkeepers that would tell a new hobbiest that RO water is a bad idea for their reef? Do you believe that gives them a better chance of success?

Who's the arrogant one?

 

[Fozza]

So you are one of the experienced reefkeepers that would recommend a new hobbiest not use RO water for their reef? Do you believe that gives them a better chance of a successful reeftank?

Who's the arrogant one?

No I wouldn't recommend a new hobbiest not use RO water. But to make a blatant statement that people should be blacklisted who use tap water, have success and recommend it , is utter arrogance.

So I was right first time thanks.