First Ich experience

[tunafish]

I started reef keeping nearly a year ago. I bought one of the beginner-trap 12 gallon nano cube tanks. I stabilized it and kept a limited amount of live rock and fish for 6 months. I was forced to move home due to financial reasons (not broke from fish tank) and decided to upgrade. I picked up a 40 gallon tank on the cheap and started from there.

My neighbor is the force behind my reefing and has been at the hobby for 20 years. He has never had a bout with Ich. I, unfortunately, went against multiple peoples advice and bought an inhabitant for my reef from the lfs known for poor water and disease. Lesson learned the hard way. The Coral Beauty is fighting it, eating everything I give her, but shes getting covered in white spots. Other inhabitants have lost this fight while I'm administering medication twice daily. I don't want to lose my remaining fish as I've had one of them since I started this hobby a year ago. That would be a huge blow to my reefkeeping morale.

I come to you, oh reefs.org, for advice on what I can do to save this fish. I've read of freshwater baths, is this a situation where I could kill the white spots before they disperse into the water, and hopefully minimize the chances of more white spots since the medicine is supposedly killing the immature disease before it finds a host? Or should I nuke the tank and start over?

 

[Anonymous]

Do you have invertibrates in the tank? If not, the easiest thing is to lower the salinity over a period of 48 hours to 1.009 and this will kill the parasite. You have to maintain it at exactly that salinity for about 3 weeks.

If you do have invertibrates, you will have to decide whether it is easier/better to move them or move the infected fish.

You mentioned "medication." What are you using?

I have used Koyolic water-soluble garlic extract liquid soaked into high-quality flake food to treat ich in a reef tank. The fish got better, and there is significant but anecdotal evidence that this might work.

 

[danmhippo]

Ditto, lowering salinity for 3 week is one of the few known method to treat ich. 3 weeks is needed for the life cycle of the ich. During which, copper based medication should be stopped.

One more thing. If you intend to go corals in the future, consider getting another tank for that. Tanks treated with copper would not be able to house corals. Let's just say it's going to be difficult as the residual copper residue into the silicon that binds the tank together, plus into the sand/rock...etc will kill some of the corals.

Sorry it turned out this way if you did use copper based medication. But a SW fish only tank is as exciting as a reef tank.

 

[tunafish]

The medication isn't something that kills ich actively, its more something that strengthens the fish's chances. It's Chem-Marin Stop Parasites, and i don't think it's copper based.

Also my tank does have invertibrates and corals. It was a functional reef with consistant environment before this problem, so I'm trying very hard not to destroy it.

 

[Anonymous]

FWIW, I've lowered mine to .014, and all inverts made it! The cycle for cryptocarian (sp?) is 27 days, so you might even want to go for a good month before you increase your salinity.
All the best to ya.

~wings~

 

[tunafish]

My tank is already established to the point that my star polyps are continuously happy, a feat that I tried hard to accomplish in my old tank. My shrimp, crabs and snails seem to do very well which leads me to believe that my water quality is at the very least decent. Hell, my pacific carpet anemone is digging on life in there. This said, I am hesitant to play with my salinity.

Does anyone have experience with Stop Parasite, or have knowledge enough to tell me if increasing slime coat, diverting water-borne ich particles and boosting fish immune systems is enough to curb the ich cycle? Or am I going to have to start playing with my water traits or do something even more drastic? My ultimate goal is to have something I would be proud to post pictures of on here, so any help would be greatly appreciated. The idea about garlic soaked food is intriguining, but completely new to me. Anyone know anything more about that?

 

[Unarce]

I've relied on garlic for several years. Even before Kent Garlic Xtreme came out, I would feed bits of crushed garlic on the rare occasions my fish got ICH. 100% success every time. Although, it seems others aren't as successful when it comes to very sensitive fish (i.e. Moorish Idol).

http://www.reefs.org/library/article/h_ ... jorge.html

 

[tunafish]

So it has developed like this:

All small fish in my tank have been killed off. Currently the watchman goby, purple tang, flame cardinal and coral beauty angel remain. The coral beauty however is showing signs of weakening. We've been treating the tank for two weeks now with little distinguishable effect on her. Finally today she lost her apetite. Because of her dimished activities, I was able to get her out of the reef an into a gallon container. I bought some Aquarium Products Quick Cure. The active ingredient is melachite green and it is copped based so I am very keen on not letting this get into the reef tank.

Someone please tell me if I am crazy here, or if this has a chance of working. If i have the CB quarantined, I administer the dose of Quick Cure, I give a quick dip in clean saltwater solution and then re-introduce the fish to the reef using a net, will there be only a negligible amount of copper to the point that it won't harm anything? And beyond that, do I even stand a chance of saving the fish this way?

 

[Anonymous]

Where did you get the Q-tank water? I'm more concerned about the quality of your QT water over anything else. A 1 gallon QT is not a good idea, imo.

 

[tunafish]

The quarantine tank is nothing more than a 1 gallon pitcher. It's what I normally use to do water changes. I got the water in it from my reef tank. And no, I don't plan on pouring it back in.

I also only plan on using this quarantine for a short amount of time, as it does not have filtration or water currents. I only placed the dying fish in it as a place to treat it with medication I couldn't otherwise use. I need to know if melachite green is something that I can basically clean off the fish with a clean saltwater bath before I put him back in the reef to see if he can rehabilitate. I know this is not the ideal way to treat a stricken fish, but I'm trying to do what I can with limited resources.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm not crapping on you...my apologies if you think I am...certainly not my intention.

I need to know if melachite green is something that I can basically clean off the fish with a clean saltwater bath before I put him back in the reef to see if he can rehabilitate.

Yes.

 

[tunafish]

I didn't think you were crapping on me, I was just trying to explain the situation as throroughly as I can. As most of the tank has been procured with my moolah, I am trying hard not to kill it all off. I've found that descriptions lacking in detail lead to me losing money, so I'm just trying to make everything clear

Thankyou very much for the quick responses, I don't like having the fish in a stagnant container for longer than I have to. Let's hope I don't add another post tomorrow saying that all of my snails, crabs and shrimp are dead from copper in the water, eh?

My tank has a skimmer, a bio-wheel filter with activated carbon, and roughly 60 pounds of LR. The filtration is, hopefully, decent enough to clear out the any copper that my fumbling hands leave behind.

*crosses fingers*

 

[Anonymous]

Have you considered getting a 10 gallon QT? A whole setup (heater, filter) should cost you around $40. A good investment, imo.

Good luck...and please keep us posted!

 

[tunafish]

Coral Beauty is now back in the reef tank. She is looking shaky, but I guess that is to be expected with all the tank transferring of the last hour or so, not to mention the change in temperatures im sure she had to endure.

Immediately upon re-entry the cleaner shrimp went to work. I turned off the light early for the night to reduce stress, and hopefully in the morning I will see that it helped. Thanks for the info so far, I have a feeling I'll be posting again

 

[kdejour]

Hey tuna. I feel your frustration. I have been using liquid garlic for years even before the companies put it out for fish. I bought it from a local GNC. I tried lowering my sg and it worked, but that was before I got into corals. I soak my seawead in garlic or whatever food i feed my fish. Try this when you add new fish as a preventative measure. I got caught up in all the hype about a uv and I still have them. My friend had the same problem and it worked for. I am not as educated on all the ins and just someone who has been there. Also make sure you don't have lager temperature changes overnight. That does happen with small aquariums. I hope you have luck saving the others. BTW you can the liquid garlic from GNC for around $14 dollars or you can get from your lfs. :wink: ich is an ugly problem but won I believe you can get over> Once again good luck.