Sump Making....

[postie]

Ok...I've had the post of high nitrates and am removing all biowheel filtration media. Biowheel will only circulate clear water...rock can filter. I have a table beside this 20 gallon and would like to put a small tank there for a sump. Maybe a 5-gallon. Except for these small tanks, I've always had pre-drilled tanks...sump is no problem...connect this, glue that, you're done.

How is the best way to incorportate a little sump with this 20-gallon...then I could add calerpa or rock or whatever.....plumbing is not my forte. And, I don't want water running all over the floor!

 

[Anonymous]

hard to avoid floods with external sumps.

My external sump/refug for my 55g is just a 15g plastic container. I use a HOB overflow/skimmer box. that can and has once in the last year or so break syphon.

I do wish I had a seperate refug as the sump has to have lower water level for power outages. But the diy filter box does help provide my system with calcium and filtration.

If you could mount the 5g above the display then it could just flow by gravity back to the display. And by positioning the overflow in the 5g you could insure very little probability of overflowing the display. But if something should plug the return to the tank then the sump may overflow.

So basically the higher tank sump or display can flood if the overflow fails. The lower can flood by a reverse syphon during power outages.

If you could drill a hole in the side of the sump, then a simple bulkhead fitting could be made for about $2 from pvc fittings.

Once you get the design right the actual plumbing is easy. I think a 5g refug with chaeto will vastly reduce the nitrates and stabilize everything in your system.

 

[postie]

ok...while waiting I have rearranged the living room...lol I now have a cabinet right beside the 20. I can put a 5 gallon or so sump (is a 5 gallon appropriate?) on top of this cabinet and it will be above the main tank. Now how do I exchange the water?

 

[Anonymous]

Bob what are you talking about.

hard to avoid floods with external sumps.

Sumps are the same as a refugium above the tank.

If the sump is big enough to hold the water from the main tank in a power outage it will NOT flood. I agree the HOB overflow boxes to loose siphon. If this happened in your design the 5G fuge would flood above the tank.

In my tnak I have a 58G tank with a 20G fuge. In the event or a power outage my tank drains down to the overflow height. About 3-4 gallons enter my sump. I have the sump running with 10 gallons normally leaving 10G of room for water from the tank.
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[postie]

So, should this sump, refuge be above the tank, below the tank, even with the tank, what? Is a 5 gallon appropriate or should it be larger? I'm headed out today to get one...so I kinda need to know what to do with it when I get home I'll make up new water for the extra sump/refuge...is this going to cause the recycling "new tank" thing and make matters worse in the main 20-gallon? I will also put in a sandbed, probably not too deep.....suggestions please and especially on the plumbing issue.

 

[Anonymous]

IMO I would do it below the tnak for asthetics. I would also get a 10G tank if you got the room. This way you can have about 5 gallons of water in you refugium and leaving 5 gallons for overflow from the tank.
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[Tbrennan]

If you wish to display above the main tank, drill a hole for the overflow at the top, plump out of this hole to your main tank supply can be accomplished with a small powerhead. When your power goes out it will only drain as low as your top overflow hole which your main tank should be able to handle. You can place a 90 on the exit hole so only the top layer is flowing into the pipe. Where your water enters the refugium keep above water level or slightly below or you will have a siphon event during a outage it drain to the bottom of the imput
Hope this helps

 

[Anonymous]

I'm with Rob. Put it under the tank and run it about half full. If you put it above the tank you will need to run your tank at a lower level to deal with the extra water when you have a power failure. Also, the 10 would be better than the 5.

 

[Anonymous]

ok...while waiting I have rearranged the living room...lol I now have a cabinet right beside the 20. I can put a 5 gallon or so sump (is a 5 gallon appropriate?) on top of this cabinet and it will be above the main tank. Now how do I exchange the water?

Another 10g would be better. I have heard refugiums should be at least 30% of display so 5g is on the small side but still large enough to be effective. Of course those rules of thumb depend on many things like bioload and plant life in the display

If you could drill a hole in that container's side. then position that hole just above the top of your tank. Add a pipe (bulkhead) back to the display, it will then drain (down to the level of the overflow) back to the display.

Then all you need is a pump like a powerhead to pump the water up to that tank.

If you do it right the refug can even be a second tank. With a lagoonal theme. Pipe fish or seahorses or whatever.

But even if you just stick some chaeto in the and every two weeks remove some, the display will be much easier to maintain.

And by having the refug above pods and stuff can flow back to the display without being chopped up by the pump.

 

[ChrisRD]

hard to avoid floods with external sumps.

Nope.

If you do it right the refug can even be a second tank. With a lagoonal theme. Pipe fish or seahorses or whatever.

Then it's a second tank, not a refugium - two different things IMO. The purpose of a refugium is to offer a safe place for pods, etc. to multiply (thus the word "refuge") and provide a natural food supply to the main tank. If you put fish in there that eat pods, well...

 

[Anonymous]

IF you decided to follow Bob's advice make sure you check the levels for a power failure case. If I are reading your posr correctly you do NOT have a sump. When the power goes out the water from the fuge will drain to the tank. If you run your tank full it will over flow. Above the tank can work just check you bases. I have never run a tank without a sump and for 8 years I am flood free.

 

[Anonymous]

Actually whether or not it is my advice you follow,

I just wanted to stress the importance of testing. Wazzel is correct.



To answer previous questions on the external sump floods:

when you pump water from one container to another and both are open, floods are possible. And have happened to the best hobbiest.

With a well thought out design that possibility is minimused. As most HOB filters attest to. But the possibility can not be eliminated, especially where the containers are at different locations. It takes a well thought out design and lotsa testing to get the system reliable enough to where it is reasonable the system would run for say 5 years with no floods.

By contrast in-tank refigiums, closed loops, fluidized bed filters, and canister systems do not have open containers at remote locations. And therefore by design are much less likely to flood.

 

[Anonymous]

It is an easy concept. If the tank drops lets say an inch to the lowest opening (overflow). Lets say thats 4 gallons of water. You need to make sure the open sump has at least 4 gallons of room for the main tank water. That is not rocket science. Regardless if this is a sump or a above tank refugium. If the above tank has the 1 inch drop and lets say its 2 gallons of water the main display MUST be able to handle 2 additional gallons of water or that will flood as well.

However if someone is crazy and not thinnking and drills a hole near the bottom of the tank for the drain and or return then the water can flood the sump and the tank drain out.
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[postie]

Here's what I've ended up with....I bought 10-gallon tank...I have moved the living room again and put a table beside the main tank...the 10-gallon is shorter as is the table it will be on, therefore it will end up just a bit below the main tank. That way...if anything floods, it will be the 10-gallon, not the main tank.

Now...we will have a little drop in space between the two. I am going to do about a 6-7 gallon water change in the main tank, add about 3 of these gallons to the "sump/refuge" and then add a couple gallons of freshly made-up water (to prevent cycling if possible). I will put sand in the bottom, maybe an inch, and dig a spoonful out of the main tank to start some life. I do want this tank to be seen, so I will not be hiding it below the main tank. I will steal a couple of pieces of live rock out of another tank and add that in a day or two.

I have a strip light to lay across the 10 with a coralife 50/50...18 or 20 watt or whatever they are. I will then try to figure out plumbing to exchange water between the two tanks. Plumbing is definitely rocket science to me...I can barely fix the toilet. I will try maybe a power head or small pump with tubing or something.

Then, I will add some plants and critters (no clue what kind) and the bio-wheel will just come completely off.

The problem in my area is that all I have to rely on in emergencies is Petsmart...LOL The pits...they've even changed all their brands to some offbrand that no one has heard of...and they have VERY limite saltwater items...their powerheads are even offbrand, but I got one anyway. One of the rotating ones which I suspect will stop rotating in a matter of a few months if I'm lucky! The only skimmer they had was a SeaClone for $100 which is out of the question for this little tank.

What do you guys think of these ideas.....give support or criticism or ideas...I'm open to it all since I've never done a sump/refug thing before. With drilled tanks it's easy...making it work independently takes some thought and work. Look forward to your opinions!!!

 

[Anonymous]

Sounds like a good idea.

you will need some sort of overflow box or contraption to drain the water from the main tank to the refuge. A small powerhead will work fine for returning the water to the tank.
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[Anonymous]

Postie:

I think you are on the right track. A "display" refugium requires a little more effort then a refug hidden outta site. But not much. Funny thing is that visitors may also go to look at the refug before the display. This link has pictures of Razor's display refug. But the plant life (macros- shaving brushes and fans) require high lighting and calcium.

http://www.saltwaterfish.com/vb/showthr ... did=135594

Actually that is a thread where one poster is converting a sump to a refug. But Razor's refug is there along with a link to his display refug.