The slime we love to hate

[Nanogasm]

Hey there all,

I'm experiencing some red cyano problems. Only on the sand bed, but it is annoying as hell removing this stuff only to find it has grown back at an enormous rate after one day. It's been my bane for the past 2 to 3 weeks.

I have been doing research on things I can do to attack the source. Seems a good DI unit will help. But before I go out and spend more money... I remember awhile back someone mentioning that when a tank is set up, it goes through various stages of algae that is a natural by-product of cycling. I recall hearing that brown diatoms come first, then hair algae and then the red slime.

If this is the case, does it imply that the algae will eventually sort itself out and disappear like the diatoms and hair did? My tank is indeed just past the three month mark, and I had my brown and hair experiences with the red slime to follow.

And if this is not the case... ie.. it will not sort itself out... if anyone has any advice on what they feel is the best way to eliminate the threat, it would be greatly appreciated.

Here are my tank specs:

24 gallon (18" cube)
2x36 watt high compact flourescents (50/50 actinic)
Saline Solutions 40 (hang-on, counter-current) skimmer
Built in submersible pump with overflow intake - 290 GPH
(admittedly, my water flow seems to focus on the top portion of my tank. I wonder if increasing flow near the bottom would help reduce algae woes down there..)

Temp: 80-82 F
Gravity: 1.024
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 5
pH: 8.2
Alk:"normal" (unfortunately, red sea kits don't give me a number)
Phosphate: 0.4
Calcium: 430

Thanks

 

[Anonymous]

Cyano is NOT a part of "natural" cycling process. While yes it does exist in your tank (hey it's bacteria, cant get rid of it if you wanted ). With cyano (as I'm finding) nutrients are the major culprit, while yes you can probably rid yourself with a much bluer lighting it still doesn't address the problem. So first see if you're introducing the nutrients into the tank.

Water source? Tap water with conditioner? RO? What?
Food source? What are you feeding your fish? Are you introducing algae products (and other planktonic life) for corals?
How's your water flow? Do you have every place in the tank with good flow? How about total turn over rate? 10x? 15? 20x? 30? 50? 100?
What are you using for skimming? Are you getting nice black coffee skimmate out of it regularlly?

 

[Len]

I'm not a fan of trite answers, but try dripping kalkwasser at a slow rate. In cyano outbreaks that has occurred in three of my systems in the past, it helped a good idea. Increasing water circulation definitely helps as well. Oxygen is actually toxic to cyano (the organism has developed internal mechanisms to de-ox in order to survie aerobic environments). Increasing water flow where you're experiencing cyano bloom can help and is most definitely worth trying.

 

[tetra]

a refugium would also help. Kalk. will definitely helps. I have a phosban reactor with phosban, that helps a lot.

 

[Nanogasm]

Thanks for the replies everyone. Definately gives me some great leads on doing something about it.

Also, in regards to your comment sfsuphysics:

What are you using for skimming? Are you getting nice black coffee skimmate out of it regularlly?

I'm wondering if my skimmer is performing the way it should. It doesn't seem to match the black coffee skimmate I hear people say it should. Instead, it creates a light brown film around the tube leading up to the cup, with a small bit of white foam that pokes out of it.

If anyone has a picture of what a skimmer cup should look like, it would help me a lot. I've never actually seen another before, so I'm not sure how to compare mine and know if its doing its job.

And if no one has a photo on hand.. no worries. Thanks for the info thus far. I appreciate it.

 

[Anonymous]

Now what you pull out depends upon what you put in, if you have a tank of nothing but corals, and you don't feed them anything then you won't pull that much, if you do have fish and feed the tank you should pull some good junk.

Don't know what kind of skimmer you have, but if it's a CPR type with a submersed pump that hangs on the back those aren't the most efficient of models because unless you get the additional skimmer box (good investment) they don't pull junk from the surface (which is where a lot of gunk resides, see if there's an oily film on the surface of your water).

Also, make sure the neck of your skimmer cup is cleaned regularlly, grab an old toothbrush and declare that as the "Skimmer's brush" (since you dont want to use it on your teeth afterwards) and just scrub out the top.

Another issue could be your flow, with one pump you probably are not getting good flow around the tank at all, you might want to aim for 30-50x the total volume.

Here's some nice coffee to give you a good pick-me up Here you can see the "dry" skimate that's on the top, and once the bubbles pop they leave some wet stuff (dark brown bottom stuff) that's liquid.

 

[Carlos Torano]

Now what you pull out depends upon what you put in, if you have a tank of nothing but corals, and you don't feed them anything then you won't pull that much, if you do have fish and feed the tank you should pull some good junk.

Don't know what kind of skimmer you have, but if it's a CPR type with a submersed pump that hangs on the back those aren't the most efficient of models because unless you get the additional skimmer box (good investment) they don't pull junk from the surface (which is where a lot of gunk resides, see if there's an oily film on the surface of your water).

Also, make sure the neck of your skimmer cup is cleaned regularlly, grab an old toothbrush and declare that as the "Skimmer's brush" (since you dont want to use it on your teeth afterwards) and just scrub out the top.

Another issue could be your flow, with one pump you probably are not getting good flow around the tank at all, you might want to aim for 30-50x the total volume.

Here's some nice coffee to give you a good pick-me up Here you can see the "dry" skimate that's on the top, and once the bubbles pop they leave some wet stuff (dark brown bottom stuff) that's liquid.

It should smell very bad too. Your neighbors should know when you clean your skimmer. :lol:

 

[Nanogasm]

Wow.. a picture is worth a thousand words. And in this case, a thousand smells.

My skimmer results are nowhere near what you have in your picture. But, I do only have 2 fish in my 24gallon. A clown and a orchid dottyback. So, maybe my skimmer is doing ok considering what I add to my tank.

Awesome info. Thanks a lot sfsuphysics.

 

[Anonymous]

Actually the smell isn't terribly bad (that or I've either gotten used to it, or subconsciously learned to breath through my mouth when working around it), that and I empty that cup every 3 days or so. If you wait a week (or worse dump it into a 5gallon bucket) you'll have a lot more smell to deal with since the bacteria have more time to fester, but you could do the bleach trick with a bucket (I wouldn't do it with this cup though just incase there's an overflow).

But yah 2 fish of that size and if you're feeding approriately shouldn't put a huge load on the skimmer. Me I have (between 200+ gallons worth of tanks), 1 naso tank,1 kole tang, 1 purple tang,1 foxface, 1 coral beauty,1 bicolor angel, 2 tomato clowns, 1 percula clown, 1 blue damsel, 4 green chromis, 1 scooter blenny, 1 lawnmower blenny, 1 royal gramma, 1 watchman goby (I think), 1 sixline wrasse, 1 unknown damsel/chromis.
So I have quite a bit more bioload, of course I'm also fighting that redslime issue, but I think I'm making headway, since the slime hasn't completely grown over the sand in the few days since I've yanked it.

 

[Anonymous]

I'd also like to mention that regular water changes will also help to decrease unwanted bacteria and algea. I've found that larger and more frequent water changes work wonders.

Maintainance, maintainance and more maintain.

I also like to run my skimmer wet, so that the skimate is lighter in color and more watery and less smelly. (if there is such a thing).

 

[Anonymous]

While I agree with the waterchange bit, doing large frequent water changes isn't always a possibility, and too large can be bad (ie if you're doing 50% every week you could potentially make the chemistry swing wildly). Also if you have a large system (ie I have 200gallons worth of tanks hooked into one another) doing a 100gallon change really isn't a possibility.

 

[Nanogasm]

I probably could up my water changes.. the summer heat has had me do lots of topoffs, which has lazed me to neglect the weekly remove and add of a good water change. Thanks for the kick and reminder of its importance.

In regards to the addition of Kalkwasser.. I have a bottle of Seachem Reef Calcium. A polygluconate. Forgive the newbie question here, but would that substitute with Kalk? Both seem to fulfill the calcium part.. which is what I'm assuming Kalkwasser is about...?

I have yet to use it.. just wondering if I can save the purchase and use something I already have.

 

[Mihai]

Nanogasm,

Kalkwasser is not only Calcium, but rather Calcium and Alkalinity in one punch. You always want to add them in a balanced manner, or you'll create imbalances. Go to the Advanced Aquarist (www.advancedaquarist.com) and read Randy Holmes' articles on Ca and Alk, they are a gold mine of information.

M.

 

[Nanogasm]

Nanogasm,

Kalkwasser is not only Calcium, but rather Calcium and Alkalinity in one punch. You always want to add them in a balanced manner, or you'll create imbalances. Go to the Advanced Aquarist (www.advancedaquarist.com) and read Randy Holmes' articles on Ca and Alk, they are a gold mine of information.

M.

Excellent. Immense thanks, Mihai.

 

[Mihai]

You're welcome. That series of articles (5-6 of them) really helped me figure out what's happening with Ca and Alk in the tanks and how to fix them. I didn't have a clue before that.

Regards,
Mihai