Refugium/Sump and Po4

[gnatp2]

I recently went from a sump with a DSB, lots of live rock and a mass of Chaeto to a clean sump. I was previously using 2 phosban reactors with Phosban media and now am using Phosar.

Since the change my phosphates have gone from .08 to .03 on a Hanna meter.

I'm not saying that a refugium is a bad thing, but it did contribute to a phosphate problem in my aquarium. Thought this would be useful to all those out there battling phosphates in their aquarium.

Nate

 

[taat2d]

So what exactly do you have in your sump now? I'm tossing around the idea to set up a fuge with mine. I'm having red hair algae problems. Just set up a Phosban Reactor. Please elaborate on your new setup.

 

[fritz]

I found the EXACT same thing to be true when I removed mine. I'm surprised more people aren't chiming in with "me too", not naming names but I know 4 or 5 MR members who would agree. I've found refugiums to be more harm than good. Often the cheato becomes a nitrate factory and a place for detritus to accumulate thereby raising phosphate levels.

 

[taat2d]

I found the EXACT same thing to be true when I removed mine. I'm surprised more people aren't chiming in with "me too", not naming names but I know 4 or 5 MR members who would agree. I've found refugiums to be more harm than good. Often the cheato becomes a nitrate factory and a place for detritus to accumulate thereby raising phosphate levels.

So basically you're running a Berlin system?

 

[gnatp2]

So what exactly do you have in your sump now? I'm tossing around the idea to set up a fuge with mine. I'm having red hair algae problems. Just set up a Phosban Reactor. Please elaborate on your new setup.

The new sump has an overflow section with 2 filter socks (I change these every other day which I believe is a must). This same section has the pump for my external skimmer. The middle section is a frag grow out chamber with a couple maxijets for circulation. The final chamber has all my pumps for calcium reactor, chiller, return, etc.. For other filtration I have 3 phosban reactors, Phosar in 2 of them and ESV Carbon in the other.

Nate

 

[taat2d]

The new sump has an overflow section with 2 filter socks (I change these every other day which I believe is a must). This same section has the pump for my external skimmer. The middle section is a frag grow out chamber with a couple maxijets for circulation. The final chamber has all my pumps for calcium reactor, chiller, return, etc.. For other filtration I have 3 phosban reactors, Phosar in 2 of them and ESV Carbon in the other.

Nate

Got any pics of your setup?

 

[fritz]

My sump is just "clean" and I like it that way.

My sump has 2 chamber, the tank drains into a filter sock in the same chamber as my skimmer. My probes are located in between the baffles which lead to the other chamber where my return pump is located.

I keep my heater and reactors in the first chamber.

I wouldn't call this a "Berlin" system. It's been a while since I've heard that but back in 1995 when it was explained to me a "Berlin system" incorporated a 6 foot protein skimmer. Keeping a fuge in my system would be pointless;

1. Pods have plenty of room to grow and reproduce free of predation in my rock work.
2. If my tank had nutrient levels high enough to support a softball sized piece of cheato, I've already failed and need to make some drastic changes quick (IMO). Cheato, in addition to having it's food stolen by my protein skimmer would only serve as a net to catch detritus where it would break down and foul my tank.

 

[taat2d]

OK I didn't know a Berlin system included a 6ft skimmer. I just thought it meant using a skimmer and nothing else in your sump, letting your LR, DSB do all the filtering.

 

[fritz]

I guess it's open to interpretation. It's just that shortly after I heard about Berlin and people started doing it, at least in my circles, I got out of the hobby. I haven't heard "Berlin" since then. Perhaps it doesn't now, I've always know it as follows:

"See everyone here used bioballs and wetdry filters, they swear by them. In Europe this is not what we do. We use "Berlin System." It's Live Rock from the ocean and that's it! Yes no filter! You see all the bacteria that you need will grow on the Live Rock! You don't need a drip plate, there is enough oxygen in the water! You also don't use these little tiny protein skimmers. The "Berlin" skimmers are 6 feet tall. That's it, just Live Rock and a HUGE protein skimmer and nothing else."

You have to understand that when this was explained to me it was the craziest thing I had ever heard. Wet dry filters are what made salt water possible (in my head at least), to run a tank with no filter at all! Insanity. The idea that bacteria could live underwater and didn't need the "wet / dry" aspect, also completely insane. Using a 6 foot protein skimmer that pushed tons of air into a tube and swirled it around pulling out muck, that looked interesting but how could that filter that water? It was nuts.

Back then it was either a skilter, a wet dry or an undergravel filter with reverse flow powerheads.

 

[taat2d]

The last time I had a reef tank was about 11 years ago. I had a Seaclone skimmer, and an empty wet/dry. That's what I thought was the Berling system. Needless to say everything in my tank died after about 6 months.

 

[danny]

refugium

the problem is the chaeto, I had 25 mangrove plants in a 60 gal fuge for a 120 gal tank, no skimmer. The great thing about mangroves is when the leaves turn brown you just pluck them & discard. Unlike chaeto nothing accumulates on the mangrove plants. I am in the process of setting up an 30 gal oceanic cube with a 21 gal refugium, a fluidized sand bed filter & possibly a phosban reactor. Also my corals grew faster without a skimmer which also takes out good nutrients. I also do not feed my tanks, there is plenty of live food from the refugium.

danny

 

[gnatp2]

Yeah boy. .02 on the last reading. I wouldn't say that my corals are a whole lot better yet but i think I am seeing small signs of color improvement.

Nate

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

I wouldn't call this a "Berlin" system. It's been a while since I've heard that but back in 1995 when it was explained to me a "Berlin system" incorporated a 6 foot protein skimmer.

I was surprise that Deanos has not provide a link to the definition of Berlin system:lol_large:Blurp::backtotop