pH Swings and other woes with Deltec Calcium Reactor

[eswanson16]

Okay, I'm new to the forum and thought I knew a thing or two but this one is making me nuts...my animals don't like it very much either.

A few months ago I upgraded to a Deltec 600S "Kalkreactor" which is really a fluidized Calcium Reactor. I had a smaller fluidized reactor before but I was burning through media rather quickly and it was difficult to refill. I thought this larger more sophisticated unit would fix things, but, here's what I've found.

1. The maunfacturer recomended to my LFS to run a combination of aragonite and what appears to be a much finer darker media probably containing mg and other trace elements. Okay, fluidized well, pH set, tank dKH and Ca stable (10/425) and then something started to accrete on the inside of all of my plumbing, pumps, chillers, etc. and a fine sedimentary deposit started covering everything. After the media was thrown in the trash and replaced by straight aragonite, I set out (with some help from the great people from my LFS) to flush all lines and equipment with water/vinegar mix, vacuum as much sediment as possible, and run bag filters to catch what was left in suspension. Others using the same mixture of media apparently have not reported this problem, so I was curious to understand if I had a unique situation.

2. The diffuculty that developed side by side with the above was a "chasing" game to try to nail down the effluent rate, CO2 rate, and internal pH. Suspect are the micron filter included with the Deltec unit to use prior to the input valve, the valve itself, or possibly some design problem I can't identify. While I regularly swap out this small filter for a clean one, it traps enough matter to rapidly change the amount of input water to the reactor. The input valve (I have tried several types) is difficult to set at best but once set will invariably become clogged. Flow reduced, CO2 constant, effluent pH goes up, valve unclogs suddenly, pressurizzed very low pH effluent blasts into sump, tank pH drops from 8.20 to 7.70 stresses out everybody and some SPS loss happens. After placing pH probe and controller on reactor, effluent pH cannot drop as low, but similar cylce happens.

What's frustrating is that with numerous tweaks, it will work fine for weeks and then go through this nonsense again. I sure would appreaciate hearing from anyone who has experience "bulletproofing" this kind of reactor setup and if anyone has had bizzare experiences with the kind of media I describe. (LFS and I don't think it was a supersaturation of Ca precipitating as CaCO3 - something much stranger - The Rowa in a seperate fluidizer turned into this bizzare block of solid nasty clay)

FYI - It's currently fed from the sump return system under pressure. I was considering purchasing a peristaltic adjustable dosing pump but fear that this too could be problematic. While this model of Deltec has a "degassing chamber" built into it, I was considering adding a secondary chamber. My first attempt at a DIY 4" PVC leaked around the cleanout fitting I used so I havn't experiemented with it too much and not sure how effective this might be.

Thanks in advance for any useful hints.

 

[Anonymous]

I hope you can get this nailed down and running. It does sound like ca and alk are fine though.

How's your mag? I have hear that may cause some problem but my unexperienced "gut feel" it that is not the problem.

Hopefully the experts with experience in reactors will help out.

I maintain 400ppm and ~2 meg/l kh with a much simplier system.

 

[Ben1]

maintain 400ppm and ~2 meg/l kh with a much simplier system.

Would your musch simplier method work on a CA/ALK loving system, softies and anemones dont such up CA/ALK. Once you get a buncg of SPS, and or clams in there some shells wont do a freaking thing.

As far as your problem goes it sounds like when the input gets clogged it throws off the whole reactor. Maybe you should put the input somewhere else in your sump. After a different prefilter so it cant clog as fast. Maybe just a big sponge?

 

[Anonymous]

I agree with trying a different pre-filter or even place a better prefilter online before the manufacturers prefilter so that clogging becomes a rare event. I'm not familiar with that brand of reactor so I don't know if that's possible.

As far as the darker media, that just sounds wrong somehow to me. Perhaps it was some grade of Dolomite. Swapping it out was probably a good idea.

 

[eswanson16]

Hi Bob - Thanks for the post. I've browsed some of your strings and have to say you have a very interesting approach - kinda the "don't mess with it and what lives, lives" method...I too have been into aquaria for about 25 years, both tropical and marine.

My current setup, my first full reef system, has been up and running since October 2003 with very low vertebrate and invertebrate casualties. I’ve lost one tang and a pair of clowns due to food competition, one gobie jumped from the tank, and one basslet did not make a successful acclimation and was probably ill when I got it – all in all, less than a 5% annualized vertebrate loss rate with none due to water quality issues. I’ve lost some invertes for various reasons that will be the topic of other threads, but until this reactor issue I’ve had very good success with the coral’s growth, coloration, and even a spawning event (isolated). Mind you, I’ve not lost any colonies completely; rather I had some bleaching of certain species. After culling, fraging, and replanting most are recovering or again thriving.

What I’m getting at is I just don’t see how I could achieve even this level of success without operating appropriate equipment, albeit as the level of complexity increases so does the chance of failure – I recall my first childhood attempt at a fish only seawater tank. It was as simple as your method suggests, it was very low cost, and mechanically resilient, but I recall the losses in that tank had me running from anything marine until now. (We’re talking UGFs, canister filter, and water changes – low tech) And I only attempted this venture after years of research and planning to make my system as redundant and stable as possible while trying to accurately replicate real-world habitats and conditions knowing that the animals I would tender could live decades in the case of fish and much longer in the case of coral colonies. I want my initial investment in life to continue as long as it can. Isn’t that the goal of this hobby? I’m thankful the technology has evolved enough to allow us to do it.

Anyway, sorry for the rambling I suppose my philosophy is out of phase with yours and thanks truly for your support.

PS – I’ve used egg crate as a structural lattice for LR to hide my overflows. Useful stuff; don’t let them harp on you too hard about it. J

I don't think mg is the problem alone - the problem is a mechnical issue with the reactor which is playing holly hell with the system over an unpredictable period between failures.

Your alkalinity is 2 meq/l (5.6 dKH)? What's your pH doing?

 

[eswanson16]

maintain 400ppm and ~2 meg/l kh with a much simplier system.

Would your musch simplier method work on a CA/ALK loving system, softies and anemones dont such up CA/ALK. Once you get a buncg of SPS, and or clams in there some shells wont do a freaking thing.

Yeah, okay, I'm working with about 12 SPS colonies, 10 or so LPS, and all sorts of mushrooms, zoanthids, nepthea, clams, etc. I have a calcium reactor becuase I'm 10-20 ppm per gallon (450 total system gallons) per day...and I hate dosing. Wait - this wasn't directed at me was it?

The input water to the reactor is from the main return system which is feed by three Iwaki 100s at about a 15' head and is prefiltered in-line. I could use a seperate pump, which is part of my original question, the concern here is redundancy of that system. This is why I'm wondering about the using of a dosing style variable peristaltic pump. Any experience with that? How are you doing this?

 

[Anonymous]

I was just curious here of what might help you. I learned pre filters are important.

thanks for posting. I am here to learn as well.

My daytime just before light out ph rose to and has stayed at 8.4-8.8 (purple) since I added macros two years ago. I do have a nightly ph drop to around 7.8 or so(brown). With the aquarium pharmi***** test kit.

 

[eswanson16]

I agree with trying a different pre-filter or even place a better prefilter online before the manufacturers prefilter so that clogging becomes a rare event. I'm not familiar with that brand of reactor so I don't know if that's possible.

The real trouble with the pre-filter is that at some critical point the flow into the reactor just stops. I have a regulator that maintains the low pressure side of the CO2 to about 30 - 35 psi. I suspect, rather know the pressure in the feed system is higher. Probably it requries a certain volume to enter the chamber before any will exit and this seems to be what I'm having trouble regulating.

I thought of putting a valve on the downstream side (after the reactor) to pressurize the whole thing, but this just caused leaks in the fun little European Deltec valves...those little grey and orange ones, ya-know...

As far as the darker media, that just sounds wrong somehow to me. Perhaps it was some grade of Dolomite. Swapping it out was probably a good idea.

Yeah - my LFS was pushing it and go into it with the manufacturer. You're right most likely. They had me run it at a 1:1 ratio with aragonite. I suspect it had phosphates too - due to the way my Rowa reactor reacted.

 

[Ben1]

Yeah, okay, I'm working with about 12 SPS colonies, 10 or so LPS, and all sorts of mushrooms, zoanthids, nepthea, clams, etc. I have a calcium reactor becuase I'm 10-20 ppm per gallon (450 total system gallons) per day...and I hate dosing. Wait - this wasn't directed at me was it?

If you didn't say it, then no. If you argree with Bob that all thats needed to mantain CA/ALK levels are some oyster shells then yes...

This is why I'm wondering about the using of a dosing style variable peristaltic pump. Any experience with that? How are you doing this?

I use one (liter meter) to feed my kalkreactor but both my CA reactors I have used have been fed from a small powerhead.