Need Advice - 2 Things

[saltank]

Alright, it has gotten to the point where I am now searching for a solution - I have green algae (I'm guessing hair algae) growing long and in patches on the sides of the glass in my tank. It started out just one or two patches on one side, now it is pretty much on all exposed glass only on the sides of the tank.

None growing on rocks or sand, just the side of glass. I siphon it off when I do water changes and it grows back within days. My setup is 46gal bow with 1-2 inches sand, 40-50lbs lr, 110W pc (2 50-50 bulbs) + 20W no. Contents are pretty much soft corals, 1 percula clown and 2 damsels, 20+ snails, 30+ hermits (I could increase the cleanup crew I know)

I do weekly to bi-weekly 10% water changes with RO, tank has been setup for approx 8 mos and used RO for initial water - no addivtives other than dripping Kalk at night. I use a remora pro skimmer (had worked great) and have 2 rio 800 ph in the tank for circulation - I have pretty good water flow.

ph = 8.4
alk = 3.3
calcium = 350
nitrate = none registering

It hasn't become a nuisance (yet) because not on rocks or sand but I don't want it to get to that point. I feed the tank 1x day flake, or a very small portion of brineshrimp plus, occasionally adding a very small chunk of shrimp for the crabs

ALSO, I have a common cuke that has done a great job with sifting the sand. Have had him about 6 mos, he has recently shrunk in size considerablyl and is moving in slow, slow motion and appears to have some kind of sores or open wounds on him???

Looking for your expertise on these matters. Is the algae anything to be concerned about, should I remove the cuke before he expires???

Thank you

 

[Anonymous]

I would test for phosphates but then they probably wont show up.

I would stop the flake and brine - both notorious for phosphates.

Keep up with the water changes and get the skimmer skimming wet.
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[Tackett]

keep doing what your doing man. and I agree with rob. loose the flake and brine. Try mysis and some other frozen foods. Just for smiles, check your RO water for phosphates, it will probably be negative. IMO just keep up what your doing, jerk the algae out of the tank when you see it with a pair tweezers and a toothbrush, be patient and the algae should go away on its own.


best of luck and keep us posted.

 

[mike90]

so flake food is bad for a reef tank?

 

[Tackett]

Flake foods tend to contain alot of phosphates. If you feed consistantly with flake and other freeze dried packaged foods that contain phosphates you will not only be feeding you fish, but the algae thats always lurking for a food source to catch fire.

I personally wont go near it.

just use a good quality frozen food and youll never have to deal with it.

I personally can't remember exactly how and why phosphates are contained in flakes and other foods, but Im sure someone here remembers.

anyone?

 

[Anonymous]

I feed flake food but I also make sure to feed just a wee little bit, enough that everyone gets some and there is not a scrap let over.

It's just to darn convenient!!


One thing I have started doing recently is I strain my frozen foods before adding them. Like in a net, or if there are big chunks I just pick them out of the thaw water. I remember I did this for a while when I first set up my reef, and then stopped for some reason, but recently I read some advice from Anthony Calfo talking about the high levels of phosphate people introduce into tanks by dumping thawed frozen food water and all in the tank.

 

[m-fine]

First off, ALL food made from living organisms has phosphates it just is a matter of how much. Any decent Marine flake food will be low phosphate and will say so on the can. I have used several brands over the years, no problems with any of them. BTW, if you have no phosphates in your take you fish and corals wont grow either, so again it is a matter of concentration.

The green hair algae is a step in the tank maturing, it will often last 6 months to a year before it goes away, and when it does you will not know what you did to make it go away. The best you can do is try to keep it in check which you are already doing. Keep some algae munchers in the tank, keep water movement high and remove by hand scraper siphon etc. what ever you can.

I do weekly to bi-weekly 10% water changes with RO

You are wasting your time and your salt. Every time you do a 10% change you leave 90% of anything bad still in the tank. Do 9 or 10 of them and you still have a third left in the tank assuming none was added in the mean time which is highly unlikely unless it was a one time contamination. You also can not possibly maintain the levels of trace elements that are absorbed by using this method, again mathematically impossible. What you need to do is either find another method of removing wastes and adding trace elements or do MUCH larger (50%-90%) water changes, less frequenly unless there is a need.

The only exception to this is if that 10% water is just used to carry out detritus or alage that you are siphoning out, in which case the change in water is incidental to what you are really doing anyway.

On the possitive side, what I would do is make sure your skimmer is working well, minimize the input of food, make sure there is plenty of water flow, and keep harvesting what you can. You can also grow macro algae in the tank or better yet a refugium and by harvesting that you are removing nutrients from the tank. One other thing, try to get your calcium up to 400+ and you will help grow coralin algae.

On to the cuke. If or when it dies you best get it out quick or you will have an even bigger algae problem. I don't know enough about the things to tell you if it is about to die or behaving in a normal fashion, but I would at least watch it closely.

 

[K9coral]

Thank-You m-fine, finally someone with some common sense!!!

I used to do the 10-20% weekly water changes on my 46 gallon tank and now that is the only tank that has been taken over by hair algae. My 100gallon has no problems yet (after 1.5yrs) and the only thing I do is water top offs and replace saltwater that I lose water during coral shipments (maybe 5gallons per month). As far as flake food, the only time flake food becomes a problem is when you put more than an itty bitty pinch in the tank (or shake it out of the can as so many of you have done!).

 

[Tackett]

First off, ALL food made from living organisms has phosphates it just is a matter of how much.

This is true, however, most flake foods have an ASTRONIMICAL number.

BTW, if you have no phosphates in your take you fish and corals wont grow either, so again it is a matter of concentration.

On the contrary, high levels of phosphates actually inhibit skeleton formation of both fish AND corals. The rapid accumulation of phosphates from sewers is one of the main reasons for the destruction of the coral reefs

The green hair algae is a step in the tank maturing, it will often last 6 months to a year before it goes away, and when it does you will not know what you did to make it go away.

Ha! how true this statement is. You will spin your wheels battling and battling and one day you will wake up and say "Its gone? what the hell did I do?"

The best you can do is try to keep it in check which you are already doing. Keep some algae munchers in the tank, keep water movement high and remove by hand scraper siphon etc. what ever you can.

Some more good info. Lots of circulation and dilgently scraping and removing pesty algae will pay off in the end. Clean up crews will also help keep things in check.

I do weekly to bi-weekly 10% water changes with RO

You are wasting your time and your salt. Every time you do a 10% change you leave 90% of anything bad still in the tank. Do 9 or 10 of them and you still have a third left in the tank assuming none was added in the mean time which is highly unlikely unless it was a one time contamination. You also can not possibly maintain the levels of trace elements that are absorbed by using this method, again mathematically impossible. What you need to do is either find another method of removing wastes and adding trace elements or do MUCH larger (50%-90%) water changes, less frequenly unless there is a need.

DO NOT ever remove 50-90% of your water, doing this will destroy 50-90% of the microorganisms that you worked so hard to build up in the first few months of your tank cycle. Removing 90% of your water will cause your tank to recycle itself again, ammonia levels to skyrocket, and everything in the tank to die. Weekly 10%-20% water changes is a good rule of thumb and a good practice to get into. Waiting along time between water changes will just allow your nitrate levels to accumulate. IT is neither a waste of time, nor a waste of salt.

On the possitive side, what I would do is make sure your skimmer is working well, minimize the input of food, make sure there is plenty of water flow, and keep harvesting what you can. You can also grow macro algae in the tank or better yet a refugium and by harvesting that you are removing nutrients from the tank. One other thing, try to get your calcium up to 400+ and you will help grow coralin algae.

Again, good info. A good skimmer can save you lots of anguish. Though many run their tanks without them.

On to the cuke. If or when it dies you best get it out quick or you will have an even bigger algae problem. I don't know enough about the things to tell you if it is about to die or behaving in a normal fashion, but I would at least watch it closely.

The poor little sea cucumber has gotten such a bad rap over the years due to people's paranoia over the so called "cuke nukes" of a certain species of cucumber known as the sea apple. As sea apples are very difficult creatures to keep, and even expert aquarists have difficulties with them. Other species of Cukes are very easily kept and are wonderful detrius eaters. I have had as many as 12 to 13 various cukes in one tank before with no problems. so...ahem..."dont be hatin"


anyways, I hope I didnt sound like a walking penis answering this reply. I tend to multiquote people's messages whom I think reply with good information as well as misinformed information. The purpose was not to embarass you or act like a know-it-all, but to help you. Feel free to contradict me or prove any of my above statements wrong if you fee they are so.

thanks.

 

[K9coral]

Wow Tackett you put a lot of work into that one! What everyone should remember is that what works for you may not work for the next guy!

 

[Tackett]

LOL yeah sorry, my fingers kind of got away from me on that one.

what you said is true though. Not every tank is the same, though they all usually show up with the same problems. Take everyone's advice with a grain of salt and keep trying. Everyone goes through the algae battle, and consequently everyone seems to win if they are persistant enough.

good luck.

 

[Tackett]

BTW, if you have no phosphates in your take you fish and corals wont grow either, so again it is a matter of concentration.

On the contrary, high levels of phosphates actually inhibit skeleton formation of both fish AND corals. The rapid accumulation of phosphates from sewers is one of the main reasons for the destruction of the coral reefs.

To be fair, you are actually partially right. A certain amount of phosphate is needed for growth as well as its use as a PH buffer. The amount needed for algae to thrive however, is usually (and I said usually) an indicator of skyrocketed (ie. unhealthy and impeding) numbers.

 

[K9coral]

This is way off base but have any of you had spaghetti worms cause problems in your tank(s)?

 

[m-fine]

First off, ALL food made from living organisms has phosphates it just is a matter of how much.

This is true, however, most flake foods have an ASTRONIMICAL number.

The one I am using now says a guaranteed max of 0.9% I think flake food has a bad rep because many people buy the wrong ones meant for fresh water or the cheapo brand, and stores like to sell expensive frozen or specialty concoctions more then flakes.

DO NOT ever remove 50-90% of your water, doing this will destroy 50-90% of the microorganisms that you worked so hard to build up in the first few months of your tank cycle. Removing 90% of your water will cause your tank to recycle itself again, ammonia levels to skyrocket, and everything in the tank to die. Weekly 10%-20% water changes is a good rule of thumb and a good practice to get into. Waiting along time between water changes will just allow your nitrate levels to accumulate. IT is neither a waste of time, nor a waste of salt.

I am sorry but you are absolutely 100% incorrect on just about everything stated here. The organisms that are key to the nitrogen cycle are in the rocks and gravel and the surface of just about anything. I have done this god knows how many times as have many many others and I have NEVER had a tank recycle. Remove all the rock and sand and replace it with new dry rock and gravel and you will have a cycle. Remove water all day and the bacteria populations that matter are unaffected. As for nitrate, I tested my water in my 65 in June just before doing the first water change in over 4 years and they were undetectable as always. If you have detectible nitrates you need more rock or sand or you need to get rid of you bio-balls or watever else is acting like a wet dry. After the 80%+ water change I did, I have had no amonia nitrite or nitrate spike or even detectable levels, and as usual nothing died. FWIW I would not go another 4 years again, I think if I can change 90% of the water once a year it will be better.

The weekly 10% water change thing is one of the oldest and biggest old wives tales in this hobby. There is absolutely no science behind it, infact a little mathematical analysis can quickly show how little this practice helps. If you dont' like math, try filling a bowl with water and a bottle of food coloring and mix well. Change out 10% of the water once a week and look me up when the water is clear again. Hell, change 10% at a time repeatedly without waiting and I am sure you will realize the futility of this practice before you get clear water. Yes there a lot of people who swear they do the water changes and have great results, but they would have the same great results if they didn't change the 10% a week.

On to the cuke. If or when it dies you best get it out quick or you will have an even bigger algae problem. I don't know enough about the things to tell you if it is about to die or behaving in a normal fashion, but I would at least watch it closely.

The poor little sea cucumber has gotten such a bad rap over the years due to people's paranoia over the so called "cuke nukes" of a certain species of cucumber known as the sea apple.

Actually, I was just refering to the problem that would result from any dead organism decaying in the tank causing algae blooms. The sea apple poisoning is another issue, and another reason to do a near 100% water change PRONTO!

I hope I formatted this correct...here goes the submit.....

 

[K9coral]

Wow (again!) - Lotta typing on one little thread! Save the salt, Im with M-fine.

 

[saltank]

thankyou all for your input

I've researched quite a bit over the years and I do believe that more often smaller water changes are better than less frequent large changes, but I don't mean to start a controversy over the issue

I believe I will overcome the algae and b/c it hasn't grown on the rocks yet Iam not freaking outabout it

I am more concerned at this point about the cuke and whether he is experiencing normal behavior right now - this morning he was actuallyclimbing the front glass, still eating but moving so slowly and overall just much much smaller than in the past......not enough food???

I am going to watch him closely. thanks again everyone

BTW what is a good brand frozen food?

 

[Anonymous]

Remove water all day and the bacteria populations that matter are unaffected.

This of course is based on the assumption that the water you are adding matches what you are removing. With a water change that large a change in pH could be signifigant.