Question for Physics experts regarding Siphons

[lachrimae]

Hola,

I'm trying to figure out if there is any way to get a broken siphon to automatically restart when power comes back on to the return pump.

Is there any way to make the following work or do I HAVE to drill?

Thanks for any input. I'd rather not drill the back of my nano :?

Mark

 

[Anonymous]

Many people with HOT overflow box use an AquaLifter Pump or a venturi powerhead to restart siphon after power is restored.

 

[Anonymous]

When your water level in the tank falls too low all the water will flow out of the siphon. So sorry, I don't think it will work.

 

[Anonymous]

When your water level in the tank falls too low all the water will flow out of the siphon. So sorry, I don't think it will work.

You are right if the diagram is correct. I assume that there will be an hang on top/back overflow box, then there will be water in both sections of the overflow to restart siphon when power come back on.

 

[Anonymous]

It won't restart. If you drill a small hole in your pipe and attach an airline to it that is connected to the intake of your return pump it may work. Very hit or miss though. I certainly wouldn't rely on it.

Is your nano glass or acrylic? It isn't very hard to drill either.

 

[lachrimae]

it's glass. I think you're right, the best (safest) solution will be the drill.

Now let's see if I can drill it without shattering it like I did my 30g tank 8O 8O 8O

 

[Anonymous]

How are you drilling it?

 

[lachrimae]

That is a very good question.

I've been trying to reach JBJ on the phone but nobody seems to answer their extension. I need to find out whether or not the back glass is tempered.

I need to try to find a diamond glass hole saw bit. Last time I was using a glass drill bit and was quite successful until near the end when I pressed to hard (loss of patience...).

I would run this under water to keep the glass & bit cool though I'm not sure how much success others have had with drilling their Nano's (probably not a common practice.)

 

[Anonymous]

Oh, it's a JBJ nano-cube? Not tempered. I 'drilled' two holes in the back of my old one to run a sump. Drilled in quotes because I used a Dremel tool with a diamond tipped bit. I think it's much easier. I haven't cracked any glass yet and I've drilled at least a dozen holes now.

Why are you having a sump? For a skimmer? There are some HOB skimmers that will fit it.

 

[gregx]

Get a pro to do it. It doesnt cost that much& saves stress.

 

[lachrimae]

This is for a DIY chiller, I just listed 'sump' to make the story easier

Here's a diagram I used over on a seahorse forum:

Basically, I have a 2.5 cu. ft dorm fridge that will be in a closet behind the nano. Water will drain down to the fridge and then get pumped back up with a small pump.
The temp will be controlled by a beer brewing refrigerator controller that can control the temp all the way up to 80 degrees. This Nano is actually for my wife and she wants dwarf seahorses so I have to keep the tank at/around 72 degrees here in Austin, TX.
The 20ish gallon tub in the fridge will be a quasi refugium and will help to keep everything more efficient (body of water in an insulated area). The controller will turn the fridge on when the temp gets to 75 and turn off at 73.

I just happened to have a fridge already and the fridge controller from my beer brewing days so this project will only cost the price of the plumbing parts (plus a new Nano if I don't drill properly 8O)

Mark

 

[Anonymous]

Get a pro to do it. It doesnt cost that much& saves stress.

It does here. A shop near me charges $25 a hole. I paid $50 for a mini-Dremel and the 2 required bits. Pays for itself after 2 holes. Plus you can carve out any shape you like. It's really incredibly simple to do. I stress more when drilling acrylic than I do with glass.

 

[Anonymous]

Matt, that's pretty different. You just work your way through the glass with the bit? What tip do you use exactly? Any other instructions? I want to try a test...

 

[Anonymous]

In order for a siphon to continue to go you need to make sure it never breaks, neither of your pictures will accomplish that, all the magic happens in what's outside the tank. Instead of hanging over the edge straight to the sump as you have an area which will always stay filled with water, that way the inside water doesn't suck out completely, and the outside tank water never completely goes below the siphon.

That and having a powerhead hooked with a venturi line also helps

 

[Anonymous]

The powerhead thing can be very hit-or-miss too though.. - (Depending on how much pressure/suction there is...)

Your best bet would be to use a peristaltic pump ("dosing pump") to assist in restarting your siphon. - Could be a quite a bit pricier but is definitely a lot more secure in restarting siphon.

You could wire up switches to start/stop the process depending on water levels (which would be a good idea to protect your return pump in case of a run-dry situation) but thats just more things to go wrong too..

Good luck with it!

 

[Anonymous]

Matt, that's pretty different. You just work your way through the glass with the bit? What tip do you use exactly? Any other instructions? I want to try a test...

Part 7103 makes the initial hole. You want to move it around in a tiny little circular motion and just apply light pressure into the glass. Once you're through, part 7134 does all the dirty work. You use it like a little saw, moving it up and down to grind down the glass. You can make it any shape you like.

Keys to going fast: Lots and lots of water (a continuous stream basically) and very high rpm.

I bought the model with the highest rpm. I think it's 35krpm or so. If you do buy these you need to order the correct collet for the bits as well. They don't fit the one that comes with it.

 

[jent46bow]

your design would work if you just reversed it. Have the tube in the tank so it is always syphoning, and would never break. Then once out of the tank make the tube go back up and then overflow through a T and then run down into the sump. I used it for a while, but you don't get very good drain rates (should work for a nano though).....I tried to make an ascii sketch but the forum does not like several spaces next to each other. So I just found a photo:

hope that makes sence....it is a simple pvc structure that has been done before, so you may be able to do some searching and find some photos/links (i did it because I did not have space behind the tank for a HOB overflow)

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Matt!

Jent- that's a cool rig. I guess it doesn't surface skim, but otherwise looks like it would work great