Customer owned LFS

[smit1260]

I am writing this in response to some of the posts lately that have found problems with their LFS. Because of these reasons and others I have begun to think that reefers and fellow fish keepers should attempt a move to consumer owned local fish stores.

I live in Minneapolis, MN and even with our large, well off metropolitain area we have no local fish stores that I 100% trust to provide great knowledge or service. I have been in and out of the fish business since I was 17 and so I know this area very well.

Cooperative fish stores could offer many advantages to it owners/customers. Similar to how a local grocery cooperative works. Provide education, carry products consumers wants, newsletters, promote captive breed and sustainable wild caught live animals. Mail ordering corals could be a thing of the past and benefit us all. Long-term goal could also be captive breeding program onsite (ie greenhouse).

I have a vision of a hobby that is more informed and doesn't create its own headaches. Let me know what you all think, both positive and negative.

For those of you that will propose the classic arguement that this will lead to inefficancy and higher prices let me give you one point to think about before you do. We deal with live animals and much miss information. We all know that an informed reefer can save herself/himself large amounts of money.

dave

 

[jusreefin]

My buddy is opening up a LFS here in the Sacramento/Roseville area. He is a well respected hobbiest and I envision him having the best store in No. Cali within the next year or 2!

 

[smit1260]

That is wonderful to hear but it doesn't help us out much here in Minnesota. It also doesn't solve many problems associated with the industry. Many people buy online not just for the cheap prices but because they don't have a LFS that they support enough to pay a little more. If it was their fish store (consumer owned) and they received rebates every year depending on the store profits I think mail order would be a thing of the past and LFS would be the largest sector of the industry.

 

[smontanus]

I'd be interested in knowing the business details. I have the same problem here. I think the source of our problem is simply a lack of hobbyists in the area. We have one LFS here, a nice guy, but doesn't know much about marine systems, especially reef. He's not really motivated to change because there are 2 to 5 people in our town that keep the tanks. What marine animals he does have I usually buy to rescue them from a slow death. So I'm not positive your idea would work here because its still a volume game no matter what the price. Any thoughts?

 

[smit1260]

Thanks for the Reply.

I don't think it is a volume problem. In the Twin Cities, MN we have about 6-8 retailers that carry saltwater and reef livestock. We also have 3 wholesale places that carry marine livestock. My idea would hopefully not only include reef livestock but also saltwater, freshwater, and freshwater specialty. In the end it would be up to the customer/owners to choose. If there was a closer relationship, the customers could submit wanted livestock. Aquarium Maintenace could also be part of the goal of the co-op fish store. Imaging being able to take a vaction and having a professional watch over your tank and be on-call.
It is just an idea and at its very beginning stages. Anyone from Minnesota who is interested in moving this idea further or would considering becoming a member and starting a consumer owned store send me a message.
Your correct in feling that it might not work in your situation. However, if a single retailer can survive then so cana co-op fish store

 

[FragMaster]

I am not totaly sure what your stating/asking here?
Every LFS ever started ( to my knowledge ) has been done so by visionary hobbiest.
Now the corporate owned LFS such as Jacks, Pets mart, and Pet.co know jack because they hire morons.
It sounds to me like your just stuck in the middle of a bunch of wholesalers. and you want to find a good retailer.
Your situation is exactly why people have started online LFS.
hit the search engines and boards, find out who is the best supplier online.
Take atvantage of it.
They realy are not a bad thing at all.

The IMHO inefficient shops are ran by people who hire morons like stated above.

 

[smit1260]

What I am asking is pros and cons to the idea of a customer owned lfs as opposed to a single owner or corporate owned lfs. Maybe I am incorrectly assuming that everyone who is reading this forum understands how cooperative (consumer owned) businesses work. If this is the case let me know and I can give a brief idea of how they work.

 

[FragMaster]

Please do , I am lost. LOL!

 

[smit1260]

Here is a general idea of how Cooperatives or consumer owned businesses work.

Cooperatives, co-ops, and consumer owned businesses are all names for a special for-profit business in which the customers own a share in the same business that they purchase a particular set of goods or services at. Some examples of co-ops are credit unions, electric co-ops, and grocery co-ops.

They ussally start-up because a group of consumers feel that they market isn't providing them the goods or services they desire, because they want to have more of a say in how the business is run, and/or want to keep money within the community. Each member will puchase a share in the prospective company, say $100. With enough investment (capital) the business can begin operation like any other business (500 members * $100 equals $50,000 of capital. Anyone including non-members can shop at the co-op. Each member can only purchase one share.

At the end of the year the profits that are made after normal business operations are returned to the member/owners. The amount of money returned is proportional to the amount you spent. Therefore, say if the co-op made 10% profit then you receive a check for 10% of what you purchased for the year. At anytime if you wish to leave for any reason you can take your $100 back. This assures that the co-op provides expectional service and the customer gets what they want. It is a business to provide the community a good or service they require.

It is one of the largest growing sectors in the retail industry. Worldwide over 750 Million people are members of a cooperative business.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could all own a fish store?

We we can through a LFS co-op.

Let me know if anyone would like an explanation of how this would work in the fish industry.

 

[FragMaster]

Yeah thats also known as a pyramid scam.
I would never do it.
The more you spend the more you make?

More like the more you spend the more you make some one else rich.

I get the return on your investment, I get the general message your trying to relay, but it just sounds like a pyramid scam to me.
There is no way that 500 people in one area would all invest $100 each into a Live Fish Store.
SO that would make the amount needed per person more like $1000 each or $2000 each.
What's to stop the person getting this whole shebang together from runing off with your money?

I guess I am just to cautious?

 

[smit1260]

This is not a pyramid scam. The goal is not to make money. The goal is to have a lfs that is controled by its customers. You receive the additonal profits in the form of a discount. So you receive a discount on all the goods purchased. Anyone can become a member at anytime and leave at anytime.

This idea is not my own but has been used to start many co-ops all over the US. We have about 8 grocery co-ops just in the Twin Cities, MN. Here is a link to one of their websites which has a more detailed explanation of how co-ops works.

http://www.wedge.coop/membership/membership-coop.html

 

[Anonymous]

I really investigate my LFS before buying...In an area the size of Minneapolis there has to be at least one! I have two here in Pittsburgh, and I would whole heartedly refer them to the best reefkeepers on this board. If your ever in town (Atlantis and Elmer's Aquarium). I've found that the best places are the ones who you personally know the owners, hell its their baby, they aren't going to alienate you with bad advice. just my $.02

 

[FragMaster]

And I bet all 8 are owned by Modern gangsters as well. Especialy in MN
J O K E !!

 

[Len]

Interesting idea, smit, but I don't think it's feasible in the practical world as most people will seek financial gain in any venture/investment. Questions regarding operational decisions, profit allocation, etc. all have to be hammered out in great detail. Otherwise, I see a lot of interal conflicts rising. Just my opinion of course. The intent is very nice, but I can't see how you can execute it.

Fragmaster, please try your best to refrain from inflammatory, juvenile insults like "moron." Thoughts are better conveyed through responsible word choices.

 

[Anonymous]

Great idea Smit1260!

It seems some are very unfamiliar with the concept of a co-op. It is entirely unrelated to the pyramid-scheme style, and has proven very successful, especially as you noted in health food stores.

The problems I can forsee might be:

1. Finding enough participants before getting started. In a city this would be easier, in the country less so. But it sounds like it wouldn't be a problem where you live.

2. Co-op management of a store with livestock would be more complicated than with a health food store. The owners (we're assuming many owners) would have different ideas about husbandry etc. that could lead to confrontations, or stirred DSBs, or grammas with anglerfish, costing everyone money. You'd have to have a good, set protocol for everything livestock-wise.

But again I think it's a really good idea. Start one up and let us know how it works.

Good Luck!
Jh


and FragMaster: you gonna send that check, or what?
JK...JK...JKidding