Natural sunlight on a 10g coral prog tank

[tinyreef]

The LFS guy's logic was this:

When he keeps the heater at 82, his MH kick on and raise the temp to 84. So only a 2 degree jump.

He said he noticed a max. water temp. If he keeps his MH on 24 hs/day, the temp tops off at 84, so additional lighting wouldn't heat the weater any more than it already had.

Let me know if you think this makes sense.

his logic is flawed.

what keeps the water/tank from accepting more heat? consider a similar situation of if your heater got stuck in the "on" position. when heaters go bad it's not that the 100W heater suddenly became a 500W heater. it's that it doesn't go off and it's continuously pumping at that small thermal energy. the system can't "bleed" that extra thermal energy off enough or it does it the only way it can, i.e. boiling/evaporative cooling.

the sun is a heater. it'll direct energy into/onto something and the temp will rise unless it's dissipated like sfsu noted. i use a fan, you can use a chiller, a sump (to spread the heat out to a larger volume), etc.

simply put, let's assume the following fictious numbers for a moment: if it takes 100-calories to raise 10-gallons 1-degree and 1-hour of sunlight (on your tank) equals 100-calories.

using the lfs's initial higher starting point, you'd reach 84F from 82F in only two hours. if you started at a lower temp like 78F, it'd take 6-hours to reach the same level. if you're only planning on 2-hours of sun, you'd be ok but you're most likely not. his (not-so-small) system tops out because his evaporative cooling most likely evens out at that level. just like a broken heater will not really boil a tank but tops out at 90F~92F. the evaporative cooling just cancels out the extra continuous heat input. edit: this is the "natural cooling" sfsu mentioned.

that's a really simple application of the concept (ignoring the sun's movement ~ varying energy levels, among other issues) but it's bascially what i'm talking about. i'm sure there are holes in that dummy/layman example but gimme a break. :lol:

slightly higher temps (83~86F) might promote more/faster growth but i'm talking about 88F+. your tank may go that high. i don't know for sure because i don't know the true volume, direct sun time, distance from the window, ambient room temp, etc. it's more dynamics involved than a typical tank setup because it's more subject to the environment (room and outside).

i also agree with sfsu that stability is key. shoot for that rather than an accelerated temp for a normal setup. BUT, you are talking about a prop tank so that might not be what you're looking for. otoh, i would go 'normal' before going 'turbo'. if you can successfully prop using that technique (higher temp) with a typical setup (artificial lighting) then i guess you could apply it to natural lighting.

i disagree with sfsu on the coloration though. ime, you will actually get a enrichment of zoanthid colors. (check my thread on NR's contest sub-forum to see before and after shots) what causes/caused the more color is unknown to me. i see it but i don't know the exact mechanisms behind it (for sure). could be richer phytoplankton feeding the food chain, could light spectrum, could be true daylight effects (dawn-noon-dusk), etc. hth

 

[Anonymous]

not to mention natural sunlight is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more powerful that most lighting that zoanthids need (most all do fine under power compacts), you all of a sudden blast them with the intensity of full sunlight (or pretty close) you're hammering them with more light than they'd need, so as a direct result they'd tend to brown out. Now if you shaded the tank and slowly acclimated the zoanthids to the power of the light then you'll probably be ok. I'm not one that buys that shorter duration/stronger intensity argument that says it's the "same amount of light"


Not to mention artifical lighting we tend to use has peaks in the bluer part of the spectrum and not so much in the yellow/red spectrum which the sun has a distribution throughout that peaks at yellow, but red is still fairly strong, not so much in the purples though.

btw brown is not a "Bad" thing for corals, white is brown isn't, it's just not as appealing to use reef keepers to have brown corals

 

[FragMaster]

8O
They grow under natural sun light just fine into those nice bright colors in the ocean. No PC, MH, t-5 or VHO in there (IE most zoanthids grow inHUGE thick matts in less than 20 feet of water, little to no refraction of light, and filtering there.)

I think with a fan on it, clear cover of some sort over the top, and an auto top off it will be fine.
Lets not forget about all those coral growers acrosed the country and in the tropical islands that use sunlight as a soul source of lighting.
To much light? Create a shaded area.

I personaly know of two peolple in southern Florida that used to keep thier reefs right next to the window facing the sun for a soul source of lighting. If your worried about the blue spectrum put a small actinic bulb over it. Actinic has been proven to be more than asthetic to our eye. It is actualy a very healthy stimulant for growth, as well as color.
Natural sunlight still provides this spectrum though in tempreate sub-tropical climates as well as tropical all on its own.
I think we get to hung up on artificial "better than the sun" lighting because we are "spoiled" by the flourece our artificial lighting gives the coral. Whats good for our eye more time than not does nothing for the coral. ( save for a little actinic).
Put an actinic bulb over that tank in Jersey and whatch them still glow the same as they did before you placed them under the sun

Dont forget about dosing calcium and elements to help keep and produce color as well.

 

[tinyreef]

Put an actinic bulb over that tank in Jersey and whatch them still glow the same as they did before you placed them under the sun

i might do that. i couldn't do much before as the Stock rules of the contest kept me from modding stuff. they may not fluoresce but they look purty. :lol:

Dont forget about dosing calcium and elements to help keep and produce color as well.

agreed, i dose/top-off with kalk daily. but i limit additives to just weekly waterchanges (bio-sea salt).

 

[Felipe]

rcsheng

Thank you so much for th response. I see what you mean now.

As nothing beats actual hands on experience, and I am still waiting for the powerheads I won on eBay 4 days ago, I am playiong with the temperatures.

Put a fan there and it stayed at 82 throughout most of the day, with a peak at 83 when the sun was beating on it.

I got a great deal on some single polyp rocks at the LFS tonight (4 polyps for $1.00!!!) so I will use those as a start on the prop tank to see how they behave.

The powerheads get here tomorrow, so I will keep you guys posted.

I also got a desk lamp to use on days the sun isn't out. I have used that before with Xenias and they grew like mad!

Felipe
www.Felipe-Bastos.com

 

[FragMaster]

SAWEET!!!!

 

[tinyreef]

$1 for four polyps? dang. i'm getting ripped. <grumble>

good luck! :wink:

 

[FragMaster]

He lives in Florida remember? LOL!!!

You can get a fishing liscense and collect them from your boat. (I dont sugest doing that unless your propogating though).

 

[Felipe]

He lives in Florida remember? LOL!!!

You can get a fishing liscense and collect them from your boat. (I dont sugest doing that unless your propogating though).

Although I am in Florida, I have never gotten anything from the ocean. It is illegal, as far as I am concerned, in all state waters. I have been scuba diving and saw some awesome stuff that would be worth bringing home, but decided to not take a risk. The fishing license doesn't let you harvest coral.

The guys at the LFS definately hook me up, and when I have propagated enough, I will gladly post them here for you guys, and if I learn to ship properly, may even consider doing that.

I have a special interest in zoa's and tonight got some nice yellow ones. They also had pink ones at the store my gf really liked.

They have good prices, so if you guys are interested, I could get them to ship.

Felipe

 

[FragMaster]

Unfortunately it DOSE. Allow you to harvest coral.
Look at the laws more carefully.
No stoney corals,brains, or seafans.
Polyps and shrooms are fine.
Just not in large quantities or for resale or you'll need a comercial liscense. Also only from a boat, and ofcourse not in or around preservse.

 

[Felipe]

Unfortunately it DOSE. Allow you to harvest coral.
Look at the laws more carefully.
No stoney corals,brains, or seafans.
Polyps and shrooms are fine.
Just not in large quantities or for resale or you'll need a comercial liscense. Also only from a boat, and ofcourse not in or around preservse.

That's amazing, and quite unfortunate. I guess it would be fun to frag a small piece underwater and bring a litle back home, from the wild.

But with the prices I get at the LFS, it doesn't make sense to do that, unless it was for fun.

How would one go about finding a reef, though? GPS?

Felipe

 

[Anonymous]

8O
They grow under natural sun light just fine into those nice bright colors in the ocean. No PC, MH, t-5 or VHO in there (IE most zoanthids grow inHUGE thick matts in less than 20 feet of water, little to no refraction of light, and filtering there.)

Yes but most of those corals have always known that light, as opposed to knowing the light of PC bulbs or VHO bulbs for a while then get thrown under than intensity. It'll stress out just about any coral, acclimation is the key!

 

[SnowManSnow]

If your water is clean you shouldnt have a problem with algae either. It need nutrients to grow. period.

B

 

[Anonymous]

Also another thing to note... even though they naturally grow in sunlight take note... From the latest advanced aquarist

I observed first hand on a dive trip to Fiji, where the number of brown corals to colored corals was approximately 100:1 on the reef.

100:1 ratio! That means colorful colors are not the norm.

 

[tinyreef]

Also another thing to note... even though they naturally grow in sunlight take note... From the latest advanced aquarist

I observed first hand on a dive trip to Fiji, where the number of brown corals to colored corals was approximately 100:1 on the reef.

100:1 ratio! That means colorful colors are not the norm.

viewing angle also plays a big role.

some corals may look brown from one view and purple from another. i have blue shrooms from the front pane look purple from the side pane.

whereas i have another look very brown in the midday but fluorescent green (yes, some do fluoresce in the sunlight, fraggie ) towards the end of the day and early morning.

these differences were some of what i meant in the different light spectrums, angles and timing of sunlight.