Small fish compatable with a dwarf lion

[Anonymous]

Eventually, I'm going to get a small twin spot lion for a 12 gallon nano cube. Wondering if there are any fish that stay small (no bigger than 3 or 4 inches) that won't get eaten by the lion.

Lions can spend a lot of time just sitting around. I'm hoping for something that will put some motion in the tank.

Suggestions?


Also, it can't be something that needs constant feeding. Half the reason I'm getting the lion is that the tank will be in my office and unattended over the weekend.

 

[Anonymous]

I think a dwarf lion would be enough bioload on its own. But, since I know you won't listen to my advice anyway.....get a golden dwarf moray.

 

[Anonymous]

Right offhand Manny I'd say no, only for the reason that a lion in a 12 gallon nano would be a lot of bioload just by itself. In other words those guys put out more waste than a 'caption' thread in the Sump

 

[Anonymous]

I had a lion. The only thing that consistently survived with it was a trigger. Because the trigger kept biting the fins off the lionfish....

 

[afishyonados]

The lion is more than enough.

 

[Anonymous]

I think a dwarf lion would be enough bioload on its own. But, since I know you won't listen to my advice anyway.....get a golden dwarf moray.

Too expensive.


I know the bio load will be big enough with the lion....when he's full grown. But since that could take for ever and a day and the tank set up will only last as long as I work where I work, I'm considering other fish to add some more life to the tank.


But only considering it...I may not do it. :wink: Heck, I may not even go for the lion. This tank will be in my office and I'm worried some idiot might stick their hand in the tank and get stung by the lion...liability and all. :roll:

 

[Anonymous]

You think a shrimp would survive his wrath? My fish ID book says it might eat ornamental shrimp, but that if a shrimp is big enough and added first, it will leave them alone.

I also read that this species is a fish eater and not so much a crustacean eater.

Doesn't sound good to me, but again, I'm just exploring options.

 

[Anonymous]

I've had a twin spot. They eat live ghost shrimp with gusto. In fact it is hard to get them to accept anything but that for the first few months, if ever. I'm sure you know not to feed guppies. I suppose a full grown cleaner shrimp could get along with it. I also think you'll either get a full grown lion, or one that will quickly get full grown. They aren't slow growers. I'd stick with it as the only fish in that tank.

Just another option, although I wouldn't have any other fish in the tank with it: Pseudechidna brummeri. These fish are bad ass, in the truest sense. All white, as long as a ribbon eel, and infinitely easier to feed and acclimate. I had a full grown one for about a year in a 12 g nanocube. This pic is pretty bad but it's of the eel feeding from my fingers. They are not shy once they get settled in.

HTH.

 

[Anonymous]

Wait a minute...it says those get to be about 40 inches.

How big of an eel can I keep in a 12 gallon cube? I mean I know they tend to curl up under a rock, but don't they need to be able to stretch out a bit?


Thanks for helping me out Matt...one more question.

Never having had a predator like the ones we are discussing...you think I will always have to feed live food to the lion?! I thought you could train it to take frozen chunks of stuff off a stick.

I'm not getting one if I have to feed it live stuff for more than the first couple of weeks.


Same goes for the eel. I'd like to get an eel as the sole fish inhabitant of the tank, but I have two reservations about the golden moray. First, there are two species, one being much larger (darker with spots) and much more common. It is that larger species that my LFS thinks I'm asking for when I asked about them...they showed me one in a tank and I knew in a second that it was not the smaller all gold one. Second, the smaller all gold ones are very rare and expensive. Could be over $100 for one. I'm not putting more than $50 or so into any fish...I don't care how cool or interesting it is. :lol: What do you think? Can I keep the brown spotted ones (larger and cheaper) in that size tank? And can I get it to eat frozen stuff off a stick?


Thanks

 

[Anonymous]

The eel I'm speaking of is G. melatremus. They get 7" long, and they have a blue eye. The eye color is quite unmistakeable. Here is a brown morph.

I forget the species name of the eel you are speaking of, but it gets far too large for a 12 gallon tank.

The ghost ribbon eel does get 40"!!! They are incredibly skinny though, just like a 'true' ribbon eel. The one pictured above is about 36" long, but it's only as thick as a pinkie. Like I said, I kept it in a 12 for a year before moving it to larger quarters. Greg Schiemer wrote an article in AA about this species if you want to search for it. IIRC he has his in a 40 g cube style tank.

The twinspot lion has a pretty solid reputation (my experience too) of not accepting anything but live foods. Very different from most other lions.

 

[Anonymous]

The eel I'm speaking of is G. melatremus. They get 7" long, and they have a blue eye. The eye color is quite unmistakeable. Here is a brown morph.

I forget the species name of the eel you are speaking of, but it gets far too large for a 12 gallon tank.

The ghost ribbon eel does get 40"!!! They are incredibly skinny though, just like a 'true' ribbon eel. The one pictured above is about 36" long, but it's only as thick as a pinkie. Like I said, I kept it in a 12 for a year before moving it to larger quarters. Greg Schiemer wrote an article in AA about this species if you want to search for it. IIRC he has his in a 40 g cube style tank.

The twinspot lion has a pretty solid reputation (my experience too) of not accepting anything but live foods. Very different from most other lions.

Your g. melatremus has an astronomical price tag. Some websites sell them for $400. I doubt I could get it for less than $100-$200 from my LFS. I'm not willing to lay that kind of cash down on an animal that could die from some disease or aquarium equipment malfunction or whatever. Not worth it. Fish die all the time. I'd pay that much for an animal that had a 90% chance of survival for a few years, but the only fish with those kinds of chances usually cost $3! :lol:


The other "golden moray" is g. miliaris. That one is common and cheap, but it gets to almost 2 feet long and it isn't going to be the thickness of a pinky! :wink: Can't have that.



I might still try the dwarf lion, but if it never took to frozen food, I would have to return it. I can't stomach feeding live animals to something for too long. Too many bad experiences with my dad's 13 foot python. Nothing like seeing a bunny rabbit hopping around a cage in terror before the snake snags it and squeezes it so hard its eyes pop out of its head.


So....you know a lot about what's good for a nano. I read your fish selection. My delema is to get an interesting fish (our multiple small fish) that can go 3 days at a time without feeding. I sometimes take mondays off and that means from Friday at 5pm to Tuesday at 9am, nothing will get touched on the tank.

Got any other ideas for what kinds of fish I could have?

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah dude, P. brummeri, just like i said above. They usually cost about 20 dollars.

 

[Anonymous]

Some other fish that you could do:
Plectranthias inermis
Liopropoma swalesi
You could probably get away with feeding these guys five times a week. Both should take to frozen mysis fairly quickly. Both will cost you around $60 or so nowadays, which is a bargain compared to what they used to cost. I paid $150 for my swalesi, and it was well worth it. Another option is an anglerfish, but I doubt you would want something that sits around like that.

 

[Anonymous]

Some other fish that you could do:
Plectranthias inermis
Liopropoma swalesi
You could probably get away with feeding these guys five times a week. Both should take to frozen mysis fairly quickly. Both will cost you around $60 or so nowadays, which is a bargain compared to what they used to cost. I paid $150 for my swalesi, and it was well worth it. Another option is an anglerfish, but I doubt you would want something that sits around like that.

It says the p inermis eats corals in one article. Do you have experience with it? It looks interesting. I will ask my LFS for a price and if they can order it, but the price on the net seems to be over $100 everyewhere I see. The cheapest was $120 plus shipping. 8O


That swalesi looks like a rainford's goby.


I think you're a fish snob Matt!..you want me to drop $100 on 2 inches of fish! Reminds me of a friend I have that won't drink any scotch that comes in a bottle for less than $100. :lol:


I really like the white ribbon eel. I'm sure I could get it for reasonable price and it looks like it will eat frozen krill readily. The problem I have is with keeping a 40 inch eel in a 12 gallon tank. I think the poor thing might feel like I do after a long flight sitting in coach.

I wonder....could I add it to my main reef some day when it got too big for the 12 gallon? :idea: What do you think? My smallest fish is a blue green chromis that is about 2 inches and growing fast. I don't plan on adding any really small fish, so I wonder if that eel would get along in the main reef when it got to big for the 12 gallon cube.

 

[Anonymous]

I think you should read the article by Greg. He has his with a couple small cardinals IIRC and it doesn't bother them. Mine never seemed to want to 'stretch out' when it was in the 12 gallon. Just curled up in the rocks and came out when hungry.

Regarding the P. inermis...they don't harm soft, SPS, or LPS corals or clams IME. I don't know where you saw or read that, but it boggles my mind how that would happen. It's the second time I've seen it mentioned on this board. They rest on corals, similar to hawkfish, but that's it. They simply don't have mouthparts that are adapted to graze on substrate.

Fish snob eh? I think of fish snobs as more the folks who get stuff that's not so nice looking, but costs a whole hell of a lot of money simply because it's rare or from deepwater. <cough cough>Griffisi angel</cough cough> But the swalesi basslet is sweet looking!

Len's photo

Totally worth the money IMO. They're hardy and super peaceful....unless you're a bite sized shrimp.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Matt.

What about a viper eel/chestnut eel (Enchelycore carychoa)? My fish ID book says it only gets to 13 inches...I suppose it's a meaty 13 inches that probably amounts to more fish than 40 ribbon inches, but have you ever read about them? I can't even find a retailer selling them, so I have no clue if they are expensive or not. I found a secondary link that priced one at $30, but it was a dead link.

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah, I just looked that up. "Reef Fishes" by Michael? He says 20 gallons minimum. I suppose it's doable in a 12. Just do lots of water changes.

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah, I just looked that up. "Reef Fishes" by Michael? He says 20 gallons minimum. I suppose it's doable in a 12. Just do lots of water changes.

Actually "Marine Fishes" by that author.


Thanks for the input on all this Matt.

 

[Anonymous]

The upside of keeping the ghost ribbon is that they don't have sharp teeth, so you can hand feed them. That little viper looks like it could put a nasty bite on you.

 

[Anonymous]

The upside of keeping the ghost ribbon is that they don't have sharp teeth, so you can hand feed them. That little viper looks like it could put a nasty bite on you.

It's probably more of a fish eater too.

I might go with the brummeri because I can probably put it in my tank as the last fish I stock in my reef, after the ones I have now can grow too big for him to eat. I'm about to add another clown and I might add one more fish and then I can put in the eel when it gets too big for the 12 gallon. This is a big plus.

I'll let you know if I get one and how it goes.

Thanks