velvet nudibranch

[Anonymous]

I've done my reading, but I like to ask at the last minute before adding something I've never kept before.

I have an unsightly planeria problem. I've tried everything short of increasing flow, which is already high, and adding some flatworm killer chemical, which I don't want to do.

I'm adding an extra powerhead to increase flow next time I take the hood off to change a bulb (in a week or so).

My wife loves c. varians, but I've never wanted to add one because of the specialized diet. Now that I have something for them to eat, I figure I can toss him in.

In a 75 gallon tank, with as many flat worms as I have, I think he will be fine. If he eats them all, I will give him back to my LFS so he won't starve in my tank. He'll probably starve in someone else's tank, but they carry this species regularly, so it's not like I'm special ordering it. So I don't feel bad about that aspect.

My concern is whether he can nuke my tank after he is loaded with flatworm toxins. How big is the risk of this slug getting shredded in a powerhead intake or the overflow? I just have two weak powerheads and my overflow has tons of slots and it doesn't seem like the water rushes through inordinately fast.


Anyone kept these? I know Len has kept them in the past. What do you think Len?

 

[Anonymous]

I'm going down the same road (still) Manny..

I've been able to find them online pretty easy, but its finally starting to sink in with my why my LFS keeps "stalling" me (though I wish they'd just come right out and said NO..)

I've heard several times over (did I mention it took a while to sink in?) that they usually don't wind up cleaning the whole tank out before they starve to death.

I guess thats not so bad if you have a local group of people who have the same problem and are committed to passing it around and keeping it fed.

But without that, it'll make your tank look spiffy for a short time, starve to death and then a short while later you're back to where you are now.

I'm gonna be moving soon, but after I do, and I get setup again... - Flatworm Xit baby... - I'm gonna nuke 'em before they get back out of hand again.

My suggestion for you? - Prepare for a massive water change. Have it all on hand. -- Siphon as many as you can beforehand, then nuke 'em with X-it and then do the water change.

 

[Anonymous]

Oh yeah... - I forgot to mention.. - By buying one anyway (just because they carry them regularly) only means you're supporting that type of thing. - I guess if you're ok with that then hey.. - Do what you're gonna do I guess.. :?

 

[Anonymous]

I'm going down the same road (still) Manny..

I've been able to find them online pretty easy, but its finally starting to sink in with my why my LFS keeps "stalling" me (though I wish they'd just come right out and said NO..)

I've heard several times over (did I mention it took a while to sink in?) that they usually don't wind up cleaning the whole tank out before they starve to death.

I guess thats not so bad if you have a local group of people who have the same problem and are committed to passing it around and keeping it fed.

But without that, it'll make your tank look spiffy for a short time, starve to death and then a short while later you're back to where you are now.

I'm gonna be moving soon, but after I do, and I get setup again... - Flatworm Xit baby... - I'm gonna nuke 'em before they get back out of hand again.

My suggestion for you? - Prepare for a massive water change. Have it all on hand. -- Siphon as many as you can beforehand, then nuke 'em with X-it and then do the water change.

If they eat only flatworms, how can they starve to death while there are still flatworms. I would say that in that case, some other factor killed them. I read they have very short lifespans too.

The reason I don't really care about giving it back to the LFS for it to go starve in someone else's tank is because of the volume my LFS carries. I called over there today and they have 6 of them! 8O

 

[Anonymous]

Oh yeah... - I forgot to mention.. - By buying one anyway (just because they carry them regularly) only means you're supporting that type of thing. - I guess if you're ok with that then hey.. - Do what you're gonna do I guess.. :?

Since they have 6 right now, and my tank has the food they need, if I get one of them, I'm just rescuing it. Odds are, all six will go to tanks with little or no food for them.

By later returning it to my LFS, I force him not to order one individual because he gets one back that he had previously ordered and has to sell that one. Sort of like how used books impact the sales figures when each used book sold robs the publisher of a new book customer.

 

[Anonymous]

The chance of them getting shredded in a powerhead is high.

The chance of nuking the tank is low but the threat is real.

The chance of starving before all flatworms are gone is also high. They are good at eating flatworms but they cannot reach into every nook & cranny to get them. Once most of the flatworm population is gone they will starve and the flatworms will just come back.

 

[Anonymous]

The chance of them getting shredded in a powerhead is high.

The chance of nuking the tank is low but the threat is real.

The chance of starving before all flatworms are gone is also high. They are good at eating flatworms but they cannot reach into every nook & cranny to get them. Once most of the flatworm population is gone they will starve and the flatworms will just come back.

Can I screen off powerhead intakes with some filter floss. I have really weak powerheads by the way...not 300gph units or anything like that. Most of my flow comes from my return and the overflow is very large with a ton of slots.

Plus, the tank is 75 gallons, so I thought a nuking threat would be low.


As for the worms coming back, it's a cycle. If it looks like there aren't any visible worms for him to feed on, I know there will still be tons of them out of sight...like roaches. But then I take him back and a few months later when more worms appear, I pick up another one.

I'm renting them really. :lol:



Here's a good question: If an intake is so weak that a snail can crawl accross it without harm, can a nudibranch do the same? Or are their bodies much softer than snails?

I always see snails munching algae directly from the intake of my small powerheads.

 

[Anonymous]

I know I'm essentially beating my head against the wall in repeating the same mantra others kept on with me, but...

By "renting" one you're still encouraging the behavior.

But yeah, you can make your tank relatively safe for them I'm sure. - Its keeping them from starving to death that we can't seem to accomodate for. - Oh, yeah, and from what I've read they're not very good shippers either so for the 6 you see at your LFS, I wonder how many didn't make it that far..

(Not that I'm ready to hug a tree or join PETA by any stretch, but still...)

The real point though is that it sounds like Flatworm eXit is a much more reliable method. And yeah, has its own dangers too. - Just be prepared with the water change and you should be good.

 

[Anonymous]

The Chelidonura varians is really really soft, softer than snails I've seen. A nylon screen would definately work though.

The overflow sounds like a problem though. Is there a pad for it to land on or would it go through the waterpump?

Renting sounds cool! 8)

 

[Anonymous]

Well...I went and picked one up at the LFS.

I chose one that didn't look so good. I have a good relationship with my LFS store owner and he'll replace it if it doesn't live.

It's missing one of its false antanea on it's rear and it has a gash on its side, but my tank is in great shape and he'll have plenty of food, so if he has any chance at all, he has it in my tank. He looks ok now. I'll see how he does.

 

[Anonymous]

Keep up posted, I'm interested.

 

[Anonymous]

I tried them and found them to be essentially useless as a defense against flatworms - hit and miss (mostly miss) like most biological controls.

I used the flatworm exit, and as long as you siphon as many as possible out, and then actively run carbon (in some kind of canister filter) to, no problem at all. It seems that problems resulting from the use of FE are to the juice in the bodies of the FW being released, not the FE itself. I ran a canister filter with 'floss' during the treatment, and a canister filter with carbon just after - along with a water change.

 

[Anonymous]

The thing is, I don't really mind the flatworms that much. People that don't know to look for them don't even notice them until I point them out.

I'd rather do nothing than pour some chemical in my tank.

Also, a six line wrasse has always been on my fish list. It will be my next fish addition, flat worms or not, so I would wait to see what that animal did before trying a chemical anyway. More hit and miss than the nudi I know, but I planned on one since before I even got my tank.


As for the nudi, he seems to be doing alright. This morning, he was crawling along the rock sucking up flat worms by extending his mouth parts and plucking them off the rock. He must not mind his wounds too much. It seems like he fills up on flat worms and then curls into a ball and takes a break for a few minutes...maybe digesting. At first I thought he was dying because he would curl up and sort of writhe a bit. But it looks like he just gets too full on them and then has to wait to keep eating.

He also seems very alert. He pulls his eye stocks in to protect them, like a snail would, when a fish swims anywhere near him.

Still not sure if his injuries will kill him, but at least he is eating worms very well. I'd like him to survive, even if he doesn't get rid of the flatworm problem. Very nice addition to the tank....interesting animal.

 

[Omni2226]

These flatworms you are speaking of. Do they resemble ants in their behavour and mode of operation? Like little swarms crawling?

I have one or two places with little tiny dots that look a lot like ant colony,s on encrusting alga. These critters are about the size of a pinhead.

 

[Anonymous]

These flatworms you are speaking of. Do they resemble ants in their behavour and mode of operation? Like little swarms crawling?

I have one or two places with little tiny dots that look a lot like ant colony,s on encrusting alga. These critters are about the size of a pinhead.

Those are probably pods. Flat worms don't move very quickly...mostly they just sit still. They are brown, roundish, and they have a red dot off center.

 

[Omni2226]

Ah ok cool. These come out in the daytime/lights so I wasnt sure if they were pods as most of those are nocturnal.

They sure look neat tho.

Goodluck with ya flatworm problem.

 

[Anonymous]

Ah ok cool. These come out in the daytime/lights so I wasnt sure if they were pods as most of those are nocturnal.

They sure look neat tho.

Goodluck with ya flatworm problem.

Do they look like a little pill-bug, or like a dot with legs that looks like a spider mite?

I've seen amphipods (pill bug pods) come out durring the day to scavenge on the rocks and when I have a bloom of them, they can look like swarming ants.


Amphipod

Copepod looks like a white/grey flea. Even smaller than a flea though.

 

[Anonymous]

The nudi looks like he's going to make it. Although at the rate he eats, I doubt he'll put a dent in the flat worms in a tank as large as mine. He sucks up about one flat worm per minute, but then rests for long periods without motion digesting them.

I wanted to add an observation I thought was pretty interesting. I was watching it eat flat worms and I noticed this tiny cylindrical worm come out of his gill slits. I wondered if it was a parasite. It drifted away on the current. About a minute later, another one. Then I realized it was poop. light brown flatworm colored poop! :lol: But why is it comming out of his back? So I looked up nudibranch anatomy and they do indeed excrete their poop from between their gill flaps. Go figure.

 

[Anonymous]

Manny, I'm in the 'flatworms...no big deal' camp. I've had them for years now...they die off, and come back, and die off, and come back...they never harm anything. I treat them the same as algae...clean the glass three times a week and don't worry about it.

Peace,

Chip

 

[Anonymous]

Manny, I'm in the 'flatworms...no big deal' camp. I've had them for years now...they die off, and come back, and die off, and come back...they never harm anything. I treat them the same as algae...clean the glass three times a week and don't worry about it.

Peace,

Chip

Mine have been around for 6 months and haven't gone anywhere. They were there before, but they've been at plague proportions for half a year.


I don't mind them that much, but since I can get a cool animal that eats them, why not add it to my tank? 8)