So about this thing called a sump

[Anonymous]

Assuming tomorrow's project is successful, I will have a 55 gallon aquarium underneath my 100 gallon aquarium. I can hardly wait to see what this does to the floorboards.

I will also have holes cut in the stand that communicate with the bulkhead holes cut at the bottom of the overflow and return boxes.

We now come to the part where I need lotsa advice.

I have this general idea that, due to gravity, water that enters the overflow will drain through to the sump, and then in order to complete the circuit, I need one or more pumps to pump water back to the top.

In TRA volume 3, there is a picture of a Durso standpipe. I want this, unless there is something better. I'm assuming the parts are standard and that will a little effort I can put them together. If not, I will post more specific questions in the DIY forum. But for now, I need advice on everything south of this. There is one overflow box in the center, and this will drain into my sump.

Now I need to know the following:

1. Does any piping, etc, go between the outlet from the bulkhead and the sump itself? I assume I want a pipe, but how far down?

2. What pump(s) would you recommend? Again the tank is 100 gallon. Since the return port is in the middle, behind the overflow, do I want TWO return pipes symmetrically disposed?

3. Do I need check-valves in the returns (I assume)? What is the best option? Should I use tubing or piping? Do I just want some sort of plastic U-shaped pipe at the re-entry point, or something more elaborate? Should I get those sea swirl things?

4. What am I forgetting?

I want to spend the minimum amount of money on this that I can while still doing things right.

 

[Anonymous]

1. Does any piping, etc, go between the outlet from the bulkhead and the sump itself? I assume I want a pipe, but how far down?

I use vinyl tubing, some other use spa pipe, while other use PVC. The lower you bring the sprout down, the less waterfall noise. Just make sure you size it appropriately, have nice curve, and don't go too deep to get a glouging sound. It is more of an art than engineering here.

2. What pump(s) would you recommend? Again the tank is 100 gallon. Since the return port is in the middle, behind the overflow, do I want TWO return pipes symmetrically disposed?

Yeah, two return will be good. I would use one pump, and which one depends on how you make the return, and how much flow you want.

3. Do I need check-valves in the returns (I assume)? What is the best option? Should I use tubing or piping? Do I just want some sort of plastic U-shaped pipe at the re-entry point, or something more elaborate? Should I get those sea swirl things?

I don't use check valve for return, since when thing goes wrong, it usually is not clean enough to work. Just return the water above the low water mark, or have a siphon breaking hole, so that when power goes out, only a few gallons goes to the sump without overflow it. As for the return type, it really depends on your personal preference. In my current tank, I drill it at several spot for returns.

4. What am I forgetting?...I want to spend the minimum amount of money on this that I can while still doing things right.[/quote]

If you want to get this done in one day, then you sounds like a good manager... :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

Just to make the system a bit clearer...


when set up correctly the following happens.

1. During normal operations when the electric is on water will be pumped up from the sump by the return pump into the main tank. That will cause the level in the main tank to rise until it gets high enough to overflow into your overflow. If your return pump is small enough, or if you have cut back the flow coming from it enough with a valve on the outlet of the return pump then the water running into the overflow will be able to be handled by the Durso.

If you have too much water being pumped up for that overflow system to handle the main tank will overflow.

The way to control that is by putting a valve right after the return pump. That way you can control how much water goes up. Most people say gate valves, but I use ball valves and they work fine although they are harder to adjust.


2.During a power outage.

Let's say your system is running fine when the power goes out.

water immediately stops being pumped up the return pipes and instead starts to drain down. It is also draining down the overflow.

As the level in the main tank drops it will get to a point where no more will go into the overflow because the level is at the bottom of that. that is the level you want to maintain when the power is out. Sooooooo, make sure the outlets from your return pump are either above that level, or if they are below that level drill a small hole in the pipe above that level, but still under the normal running level. That small hole will allow the siphon to break when the main tank water drops and will keep it from dropping anymore.

3. The last point.

How to figure out the level of water you want in the sump when the system is running.

This is an easy one....

Turn everything off. Allow all the water to drain that will drain from the main tank. Then stick your arm in the main tank as far down as you can, this will push just a bit more water down to the sump.

Then look at your sump. How full is it? It should be most of the way to the top, if its not then add some water until it is. Then mark that height with a piece of tape. When you turn it on it will drain down a bit as the main tank fills. Mark that height also with a piece of tape.

That way when you are doing maintenance you can see at a glance whether your system needs more top off water.....

 

[Anonymous]

Thank you both. That is very helpful.

 

[SnowManSnow]

one more thing to expect. WHen you make your stand pipe it will gurgle and cause all sorts of ruckus. Start prettty small and drill a hole in the top cap of the stand pipe to let some air in. Keep progressively making the hold a little bigger untill the "toilet flush" sound stops.

Also, expect lots of macro bubbles to flush into your display. They MAY not, but just be prepaired and have a bubble plan in mind

B

 

[Anonymous]

Are you talking about the Durso stand pipe, part 10?

 

[SnowManSnow]

you got it

 

[trido]

I would try to not use parts 3-5 and use a pipe fitted to your bulkhead. also if you add parts 11 and 12 it will help to prevent critters such as snails or unlucky fish from potentially clogging your drain.

Definitions;
11: another piece of pipe with holes drilled or slots cut into it.
12: end cap

You can see one example in my tank build thread for this (PG. 2). I took this idea from the far more experience reefers in the forums.

One more thought, You may want to size your return pump to match up closely with what your overflow bulkhead is rated for. Here is a link that gives bulkhead ratings.

http://dslinux.dyndns.org/~denise/aquar ... l#drilling

 

[Anonymous]

Like this?

or

 

[Anonymous]

I would try to not use parts 3-5 and use a pipe fitted to your bulkhead.

He has this on the web page:

If you have a 1 inch bulkhead the standpipe needs to be larger than the bulkhead to work correctly. I get a lot of e-mail questions on why this is. Honestly, I'm not sure. Typically if you use 1 inch PVC pipe on a 1 inch bulkhead you get poor results. (Some exceptions with smaller low flow tanks.) Take my word on it and use 1¼ inch PVC pipe. For very large tanks with large return pumps however, there does not seem to be any need to oversize the standpipe for larger bulkheads such as 1.5 inch. Larger bulkheads can use PVC pipe & fittings that match the size of the bulkhead. (I consider tanks in the 350 gallon and up good candidates for 1.5 inch bulkheads).

 

[Anonymous]

I would try to not use parts 3-5 and use a pipe fitted to your bulkhead. also if you add parts 11 and 12 it will help to prevent critters such as snails or unlucky fish from potentially clogging your drain.

Definitions;
11: another piece of pipe with holes drilled or slots cut into it.
12: end cap

You can see one example in my tank build thread for this (PG. 2). I took this idea from the far more experience reefers in the forums.

One more thought, You may want to size your return pump to match up closely with what your overflow bulkhead is rated for. Here is a link that gives bulkhead ratings.

http://dslinux.dyndns.org/~denise/aquar ... l#drilling

Great link and advice. Thanks!!

Currently I don't even have a bulkhead, just a round hole cut the bottom of the overflow.

 

[Anonymous]

Well this sure didn't work, despite early signs of victory.

Any ideas?

 

[Anonymous]

Well, that sucks.

How about dynamiting the whole thing and starting again...

Naw, just kidding.

If the 55 is acrylic there is no reason you couldn't cut it down lower, although that won't solve the GFI problem

In your case I would buy a tank that is lower and shorter.

 

[Anonymous]

So I put a 20 long in there. It isn't ideal, but at some point you have to declare victory and leave the rest to the Viet Kong.