Do you quarantine new fish / corals?

[Anonymous]

Nonsense, I am just waiting for us for you to regale us with more anecdotes, cargo-cult theories and folk wisdom.

 

[Anonymous]

Nonsense, I am just waiting for us for you to regale us with more anecdotes, cargo-cult theories and folk wisdom.

So you offhandly dismiss the article I cited in answer to your diatribe and the man who wrote it? How very open minded of you.

 

[Anonymous]

What article? You gonna make me go back to page 2?

 

[Anonymous]

...[milzed]...

 

[Anonymous]

But getting back to the point: If you stress a fish, it is more likely to develop ich. To avoid the stress, it is best to remove it from the bag in an non-injurous manner and dump it directly into a well-established reef tank, with no mixing of water either in the tank or even in the bag.

 

[Anonymous]

But getting back to the point: If you stress a fish, it is more likely to develop ich. To avoid the stress, it is best to net it out of the bag and dump it directly into a well-established reef tank, with no mixing of water either in the tank or even in the bag.

Source? Link?

Nonsense, I am just waiting for us for you to regale us with more anecdotes, cargo-cult theories and folk wisdom :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

By far the best treatment is also the cheapest: Hyposalinity. It always works. It rarely kills the fish. You can move the corals and do it in a reef tank if you have to (although I would never do that). He lists it as number 4. I'd do that first.

Ooooh, I wish Vitz was up here to see that statement.

Peace,

Chip

 

[Anonymous]

Actually, the ariticle is crap:

:lol: I'm so glad we have you to rely on, just think of how misleading these sources are to the uninformed!


References:

Andrews, Dr. Chris, Adrian Exell, and Dr. Neville Carrington. 1988. The Manual of Fish Health. Blacksburg, VA: Tetra Press. pages 166-168 and 190-195.

Bartelme, Terry D. 2001. "Treating Saltwater Ich Without Medication" Tropical Fish Hobbyist, January 2001.

Bassleer, Gerald. 1996. Diseases in Marine Aquarium Fish: Causes, Symptoms, Treatment. Westmeerbeek, Belgium: Bassleer Biofish. pages 51-52.

Bunkley-Williams, Lucy & Ernest H. Williams, Jr. 1994. "Disease caused by Trichodina spheroidesi and Cryptocaryon irritans (Ciliophora) in wild coral reef fishes" Journal of Aquatic Animal Health 6:360-361, 1994.

Burgess, P. J. & R. A. Matthews. 1995. "Fish host range of seven isolates of Cryptocaryon irritans (Ciliophora)" Journal of Fish Biology 46:727-729, 1995.

Calfo, Anthony pers. comm.

Colorni, Angelo. 1985 "Aspects of the biology of Cryptocaryon irritans, and hyposalinity as a control measure in cultured gilt-head sea bream Sparus aurata" Diseases of Aquatic Organisms, 1:19-22, 1985.

Colorni, Angelo. 1987. "Biology of Cryptocaryon irritans and strategies for its control" Aquaculture 67:236-237.

Colorni, Angelo & Peter Burgess. 1997. "Cryptocaryon irritans Brown 1951, the cause of 'white spot disease' in marine fish: an update" Aquarium Sciences and Conservation 1:217-238, 1997.

Dixon, Dr. Beverly A. pers. comm.

Fenner, Robert pers. comm.

Gratzek, Dr. John B., Dr. Richard E. Wolke, Dr. Emmett B. Shotts Jr., Dr. Donald Dawe, and George C. Blasiola. 1992. Aquariology: Fish Diseases & Water Chemistry. Blacksburg, VA: Tetra Press. pages 105-107.

Joshi, Sanjay. 2003. "Top 5 Marine Fish Parasites" Aquarium Fish Magazine, September 2003.

Kollman, Rand. 1998. "Low Salinity as Quarantine and Treatment of Marine Fish Parasites" SeaScope, Volume 15, Spring 1998.

Michael, Scott. 2002. "Fighting Marine Parasites" Aquarium Fish Magazine, October 2002.

Noga, Edward J. 2000. Fish Disease: Diagnosis and Treatment. Ames, IA: Iowa State University Press. pages 97-99, 282-283, and 286-288.

Rasheed, Victoria M. 1989 "Disease of Cultured Brown-Spotted Grouper Epinephelus tauvina and Silvery Black Porgy Acanthopagrus curvieri in Kuwait" Journal of Aquatic Animal Health 1:102-107, 1989.

Untergasser, Dieter. 1989. Handbook of Fish Diseases. Neptune, NJ: TFH Publications. pages 95 and 127.

Walsh, John pers.comm.

Yoshinaga, T. & H.W. Dickerson. 1994. "Laboratory Propagation of Cryptocaryon irritans on a Saltwater-Adapted Poecilia Hybrid, the Black Molly" Journal of Aquatic Animal Health 6:197-201, 1994.

 

[Anonymous]

...[milzed]...

 

[Anonymous]

But getting back to the point: If you stress a fish, it is more likely to develop ich. To avoid the stress, it is best to net it out of the bag and dump it directly into a well-established reef tank, with no mixing of water either in the tank or even in the bag.

Nonsense

As the fish metabolizes and excretes ammonia, dissolved ammonia increases in concentration. As CO2 is exhaled by the fish, the pH of the water in the bag drops. This shifts the equilibrium away from dissolved ammonia gas and to ammonium ion (the ammonia becomes protonated to a greater extent at lower pH). Thus the carbonic acid fortuitously detoxifies the ammonia.

When you dump tank water into the bag, it raises the pH, shifting the equilibrium back to dissolved ammonia gas, and gives the fish a blast of ammonia during the acclimation period. This probably isn't a big deal when you just bring the fish home from the LFS, but when shipped, this becomes quite crucial.

 

[Anonymous]

:lol: Thank you ladies and gentlemen, I hope you enjoyed this performance of the AOTS/SubCom Marcos boogie. Tune into the sUmp for more of the same.

 

[Anonymous]

This has gotten interesting.


Could this be a possible spot for IBTL?

 

[Anonymous]

I think what everyone is trying to say is that some do and some don't and both methods have consequences. So rolls your dice and takes your chances.

 

[Anonymous]

I don't quarantine anything, and have not had any infectious disasters.

I think if you're careful with what you buy, and are willing to take some risk, then it is not as necessary as many would have you believe.

Again, you're saying "I haven't worn a seatbelt for a year, and I'm still alive. Therefore seatbelts are not very necessary" A rather narrowminded approach methinks.

Thank you.

Let me try to explain my point using your own analogy.
1st, I refute your conclusion that my statement's logic is equal to "I haven't worn a seatbelt for a year, and I'm still alive. Therefore seatbelts are not very necessary".

My logic, in your terms, is that:
-not all car trips are equal.
-not all drivers are equal.
-not all roads are equal.

Let us imagine a man who lives in the country. He only drives to the local store and to his neighbor's house. He's been driving for fifty years. He drives without a seatbelt. And he's neversomuch as broken a fingernail. These people do exist.

For this guy, yes, I'd be willing to say 'seatbelts are not necessary.'

Now imagine that this guy lives by the ocean and keeps marine fish. He has a large stable tank, gets his fish from LFSs who get them straight from the ocean. The LFS always QTs and watches for disease. He knows his tank and the environment from which his livestock is bought.

I'd say this guy can continue doing just fine without the QT.

Any other approach, I thinks, would be narrowminded.

That said, my 1st response to this thread was just that, a response to the OP's question. It was not meant to be advice, and not meant to be driven recklessly.

8O

 

[Anonymous]

But getting back to the point: If you stress a fish, it is more likely to develop ich. To avoid the stress, it is best to net it out of the bag and dump it directly into a well-established reef tank, with no mixing of water either in the tank or even in the bag.

Bill, the rest of this thread aside, it is never a good idea to net a fish if you can avoid it. It rips off their scales and usually stresses the hell out of them.

 

[Anonymous]

I think part of the misunderstanding going on here is that a QT tank is thought of as an inferior environment. The QT tank should be a superior environment to the main tank, because the fish will not experience any stress from bullying or competition for food.

In the short run the most important thing is getting your fish eating and building up its immune system and general health. IMO this is usually best accomplished in a quarantine tank. There are only a very few fish I would not quarantine--mandarins, some wrassses, and some anthias.

 

[Anonymous]

But getting back to the point: If you stress a fish, it is more likely to develop ich. To avoid the stress, it is best to net it out of the bag and dump it directly into a well-established reef tank, with no mixing of water either in the tank or even in the bag.

Nonsense

As the fish metabolizes and excretes ammonia, dissolved ammonia increases in concentration. As CO2 is exhaled by the fish, the pH of the water in the bag drops. This shifts the equilibrium away from dissolved ammonia gas and to ammonium ion (the ammonia becomes protonated to a greater extent at lower pH). Thus the carbonic acid fortuitously detoxifies the ammonia.

When you dump tank water into the bag, it raises the pH, shifting the equilibrium back to dissolved ammonia gas, and gives the fish a blast of ammonia during the acclimation period. This probably isn't a big deal when you just bring the fish home from the LFS, but when shipped, this becomes quite crucial.

What does any of that have to do with hyposalinity?

Detoxing fish of ammonia with the use of lower pH, hyposalinity for getting rid of marine ich and the use of a quarenteen/hospital tank are 3 seperate issues.

According to Subcomandante Marcos, the question should have been "Is it better to qt a fish or remove all your corals after you introduced an infected fish and do hypo?"

 

[Anonymous]

But getting back to the point: If you stress a fish, it is more likely to develop ich. To avoid the stress, it is best to net it out of the bag and dump it directly into a well-established reef tank, with no mixing of water either in the tank or even in the bag.

Nonsense

As the fish metabolizes and excretes ammonia, dissolved ammonia increases in concentration. As CO2 is exhaled by the fish, the pH of the water in the bag drops. This shifts the equilibrium away from dissolved ammonia gas and to ammonium ion (the ammonia becomes protonated to a greater extent at lower pH). Thus the carbonic acid fortuitously detoxifies the ammonia.

When you dump tank water into the bag, it raises the pH, shifting the equilibrium back to dissolved ammonia gas, and gives the fish a blast of ammonia during the acclimation period. This probably isn't a big deal when you just bring the fish home from the LFS, but when shipped, this becomes quite crucial.

What does any of that have to do with hyposalinity?

Nothing.

Detoxing fish of ammonia with the use of lower pH, hyposalinity for getting rid of marine ich and the use of a quarenteen/hospital tank are 3 seperate issues.

Have you ever thought of becoming a detective?

According to Subcomandante Marcos, the question should have been "Is it better to qt a fish or remove all your corals after you introduced an infected fish and do hypo?"

Ok, I will try to spell this out for you. I will type slowly so you can follow:

Someone asked about whether a fish should be isolated. Some said yes for the protection of other inhabitants (which is fair enough). Others (like me) said that unless you have a 5 star quarintene tank, you are likely to stress the fish and possibly kill it, whereas putting it into a well-established reef tank can help to unstress the fish and make it less prone to causing disease. Then someone posted about having ich in their reef tank, and the impossibility of catching the fish. Some of us recommended in situ methods for treatment. Then someone else posted about various fish disease treatments including copper ion, and I pointed out hyposalinity was a safer treatment.

This is a logical flow of developing ideas in a conversation or bb posting. Why do you have a problem with that?

 

[Anonymous]

I think part of the misunderstanding going on here is that a QT tank is thought of as an inferior environment. The QT tank should be a superior environment to the main tank, because the fish will not experience any stress from bullying or competition for food.

In the short run the most important thing is getting your fish eating and building up its immune system and general health. IMO this is usually best accomplished in a quarantine tank. There are only a very few fish I would not quarantine--mandarins, some wrassses, and some anthias.

If that is what you have for a quarentine tank, then great. Most people do not run a separate well-established reef tank for the purpose of isolating a fish.

 

[Anonymous]

But getting back to the point: If you stress a fish, it is more likely to develop ich. To avoid the stress, it is best to net it out of the bag and dump it directly into a well-established reef tank, with no mixing of water either in the tank or even in the bag.

Bill, the rest of this thread aside, it is never a good idea to net a fish if you can avoid it. It rips off their scales and usually stresses the hell out of them.

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