Particulates driving me nuts; suggestions?

[Anonymous]

So I've had the rock in the new tank for two weeks as of tomorrow, got the hardware all humming along nicely, just waiting for the rock to fully cycle to begin adding livestock.

But one thing is bugging me: I've got lots of fine particulate matter in the water column, and I can't seem to get rid of it.

There's no sand bed so this is just the 'shedding' from the live rock as it cures. There's just lots of it, and with the current in the tank it never settles and never seems to go over the overflow in any appreciable amount. With just the moonlights or the actinics on the water looks crystal clear, but fire up the halide and it becomes obvious just how much is floating around.

When it didn't seem to thin out on it's own I picked up a HOT magnum canister filter. Been running it off and on for a few days now, sometimes with a micron cartridge, sometimes with it's mesh & carbon container. If it's made any difference, I honestly can't tell.

I've got a couple of 50 micron filter socks being delivered today. I'm thinking of tieing one over the output of a maxijet 600 (I have one lying around) and using that in the tank. Pump pulls in water + particulates, particulates stay in the sock. Gives me a mobile cleaning platform, at least.

Any other suggestions? Only other thought I have is a diatom filter.

 

[Anonymous]

There is a filter that plugs in to the suction side of the MJ's that has a particulate filter on it. They clog up kind of fast, but they work well and are cleanable.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Wazz, that's a thought. I'd forgotten about those.

 

[Anonymous]

The filter socks will definetly help.

Other than that, carbon and ozone both help.

And a good skimmer will help too, although I'm not sure how much.

 

[Anonymous]

Why don't you think it is going over the overflow? If it is staying suspended I would think it would be pretty evenly mixed in your water.

If it really is too heavy, couldn't you just turn your pumps off for a couple hours and then siphon the bottom?

jayo

 

[Anonymous]

Jayo, the reason I don't think much of it is going over the overflow is the layout of the overflow and the returns, and the flow pattern created by it. I'd do a lousy job of explaining it, but watching it carefully it really doesn't appear that much ends up in the sump compartment. If it did, I'd expect the skimmer back there would have managed to catch most of it over the past two weeks, which doesn't seem to have happened.

I've tried turning off the pumps and siphoning what does collect, but not much really seems to even overnight.

Think I'll go ahead and order up one of those Quickfilters + an aquaclear powerhead to use it with (dratted things are designed deliberately to not fit on maxijets). Hopefully between running one of those and the maxijet 600 with the filter sock I'll get this cleared up.

If not, I may try a flocculent like Kent Marine's ProClear. I think the issue here really is just how fine these particles are (think very small dust particles and you'd have it pretty much), so a clumping agent might really help.

 

[Anonymous]

Filter socks have worked wonders for me.

B

 

[Anonymous]

If you can't get filter socks, you can use those el cheapo ready made filter floss thingys for like the marineland HOB whisper filters. The smaller sizes work great as they are the right size and you just use a ribber band to fix it to the end of the PH intake.

 

[Anonymous]

I would run the magnum continuously with the micron cartridge - as it 'clogs' it will filter better. You rock is going to continue to shed from months! I think it will be more effective than the powerhead filter and you already own it.

Welcome back!

 

[HClH2OFish]

Would a diatomeceous earth filter work for this? I know you can buy filters specific for this, but I belive there's a kit that goes with the HOT Magnum to run diatomeceous in it.

Think that would likely clear it up much faster than filter floss IMHO.

Found this on eBay (no, this isn't me :lol: )

http://cgi.ebay.com/WHISPER-DIATOMA...tcZphotoQQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[Anonymous]

What do you think would happen if you did nothing?

jayo

 

[Anonymous]

It really depends on the particle size. For large particle, they will eventually settle out in the sump. Finer suspension will clumps in most situation, and settle out as well. It is rare for suspension that look clear but scatter light if you shine it from the top, but it does happens.

It is more efficient to try larger pore size to get the large particles out instead of going with a diatomeceous filter at the start. If you ran it at the very beginning, the media will clog up very fast. Alternative is to use various filter in series, that is, with a sediment prefilter, a micro fitler, and lastly, polish it with a diatom. filter. If you don't want to run three canister in series, then it would be more efficient to run the prefilter first, then as it stop collecting much sediment, change it over to a smaller filter media, until you go down to a nanofiltration cartidge that turn your water good enough for freshwater fish...

 

[Anonymous]

Well, alright, here's the plan of attack. Filter socks came yesterday (really good idea about the biobag cartridges Lawdawg, I'll remember that one), so I've got the canister filter and the powerhead-with-a-bag on it running in the tank now. Quickfilter will be here around tuesday, if it's not clear by then I'll add that to the tank as well.

If there isn't a significant improvement by a few days after that, I'll try adding a flocculent next weekend. Kent swears theirs is invert safe, but I'd still rather save it for last.

Finer suspension will clumps in most situation, and settle out as well.

Yeah. Just isn't happening here though, and damned if I know why. Right now there isn't so much as a speck on the bottom glass of my tank, it's all in the water column.

It is rare for suspension that look clear but scatter light if you shine it from the top, but it does happens.

Tank looks absolutely clear with just the LEDs or the actinics on, but the minute I turn on the halide it's visibly cloudy.

What do you think would happen if you did nothing?

Normally I'd expect what 7E wrote, even fines would eventually clump and settle, and I'd just siphon it all out. I've just never seen it take as long as it already has.

 

[Anonymous]

cjdevito
This too shall pass, think about the future. You've got a diatom outbreak and cyano to look forward to! :twisted:

 

[Anonymous]

Undetectable phosphates, baby, undetectable phosphates!

Actually, it's funny because I keep waiting for the diatoms and they just ain't showing up to the party. WHen I was in L.A. there was horribly high levels of silicate in the tap water, even after running it through RO/DI I still ended up with diatoms all the time. Don't have that problem here in NYC, so it makes for a nice change

 

[Anonymous]

:lol:

 

[Anonymous]

Make sure you look at the ingredient of the flocculent beofore dumping in the stuff.

It sounds like you have a suspension in the tank there. With fast flow rate, some may never settle down

Go with the multi stage approach to get the regular sediment out, and then pass the filtered water thru fine filter to take care of the suspension.

Physical problem is easy to take care of in this hobby, compare to some chemical and biological issue. Relax, Chuck.

 

[Anonymous]

My tank has this problem too and it is almost a year old now.

I have tried a 20" sediment filter in a canister. I used a mag9.5 to pump water through it. After a few days the filter would be nasty and almost clogged. But the water still looked the same.

I think this might be something that high flow tanks just have. Dunno.

I am all ears too to find a solution to this problem.

Louey

 

[Anonymous]

Make sure you look at the ingredient of the flocculent beofore dumping in the stuff.

Well, here's the stuff off Kent's label on their product....
"Description:
Kent Pro Clear Marine produces and maintains crystal clear aquarium water without affecting pH. Whereas competing products may clog the fishes gills, suffocating them, and cause invertebrates to close up, Kent Pro Clear is completely safe for all marine fish and invertebrates. Pro Clear uses a blend of high tech polymers that will safely flocculate any dirt, or other cloudy water causing particles. Contains no phosphates, nitrates, or silicates. 100% biodegradable.

Directions:
Dilute one drop per gallon of aquarium capacity or 5 ml (1 capful=5 ml on 8 or 16 oz. container or 10 ml on 64 oz. container) per 50 gallons (190 liters) of aquarium capacity in a cup of water and evenly disperse around the aquarium. Precipitated particles should be removed by a properly working mechanical filter and fine filtering medium, such as filter floss, or siphoned out. Allow 8 hours before siphoning. Repeat in 24 hours, if necessary. Do not use in freshwater.

Considerations for use:
Kent Pro•Clear Marine is a long chain polymer which attracts floating dirt, suspended particulate matter and other organic materials into clumps which are easy to filter out or will settle to the bottom of the aquarium. Unlike competing products, Kent Pro•Clear is very safe to use. Caution: Green Marine water is a sign of a serious chemistry problem, often caused by excess ammonia buildup. If you experience green water, test for high ammonia levels and provide extra aeration. Observe fish closely for signs of stress and remove to another aquarium, if necessary.

For best results, use a fine filter floss or pad filter and force water through it. Dirt, suspended particulate matter and organic debris will collect on this filter and can be discarded. If the tank is extremely cloudy, you can double the dose. Do not use more than two doses per week.

If the tank is heavily loaded and has not had proper water changes, use Kent Poly•Ox first, as directed, to lower the organic loading on the system. Then, wait one day before using this product.

Contents:
Deionized water, polyelectrolytes"

If it starts looking likely that I may give it a go, I'll try a test run in a specimen container with some 'pods in it and see if they suffer any adverse reaction first. Managed to find a handful of accounts of people using it reef tanks in various places on the net, with none reporting any problems from use, so hopefully it is as harmless as claimed.

Physical problem is easy to take care of in this hobby, compare to some chemical and biological issue. Relax, Chuck.

I know. It's just annoying

 

[Anonymous]

polyelectrolytes is a type of plastic (polymer) so it is kind of inert chemically. Just like to "glue" to ions and make them settle out. I won't use it if there is alternative, however.

You actually may want to find out the source of the particles, otherwise, you will end up using these chemical all the time. Most rock just give off tons of sediments that settle readily from biological action of the bacteria and mechanical action of critters. For really fine particle that stays on the water colume, it must be something unusual, and I am curious to find out.