my new tank thread! can i create a utopia? (gunna be long)

[dadstank]

So. My heart was sent to San Francisco two months ago. As I knew she would, she kicked an amazing amount of ass. They want to keep her.

Needless to say, within the next 60-90 days I will begin transporting “benjieland”.

Whew. I said it.

I have known this was coming, and I have been waiting until it was official before I said anything. Hell, y’all now know before my mom…..

However, I have a plan.
I will tell mom much later.

Now,
details;

Current setup:
55 gallon
15 gallon sump
RS6-1 Euroreef skimmer (brand new pump)
2 powerhead 802s on a wavemaster pro
1 powerhead 402 as above
Powerhead 802 as a return pump
250W 10,000K (coralife highlights kicked out last trip?)
50-75lbs of live rock
1 super large leather
1 large rock of cabbage coral
1 large rock of white star polyps
Several small rocks of above
One large rock of regular red mushrooms
1 small rock of green button polyps
A friggin forest of Kenya trees. damn you kenya tree..
1 convict blenny
1 superhuman damsel
1 super fat sailfin tang named Isabelle, who still hates me.
Any remaining cleanup crew?
A bottom full o’sand…….

a few things;
Reef tank setup as is: 8/30/1992 (inc. leather/live rock been through alot super stable)
Tank age: est. 22-25years old (after much debate, mom wins by default)
Sump age unknown –generic 15 gallon
Skimmer: 2004 (stretch to 120ish total system volume)
Lights: ? knowing my father, 2002-2003. I also have another pendant fixture and ballast that I do not know its make or condition, other than I saved it from the “unknown” garbage pile many moons ago. I have enough fluorescent light bulbs to choke a horse 24”/48” (all of which are verifiably useable)

i have now moved this tank twice.

1. from its original 1992 perch to my new york city apartment. Total time 11 hours, 2 people, and we made it to the party that sat night…..
2. from the east wall, to the west wall. Total time, 9 hours.

Enter round three…. However, the game is slightly different.

In SF there will be new tank, new sump tank, possible homemade (but none the less new) stand, and possible open top tank?

Once a new tank is purchased and delivered, I will fly out to SF on a Friday night with a large chunk of live rock off my tank and sand to start the new tank. yes, I plan on sending this onboard as check in (no animals nor corals, maybe some kenya tree to see if I can kill it). either a stand will be purchased or wood will be ordered. (in theory) by Sunday afternoon, just in time for me to fly home, the tank would be filled with water (some one will have to be spending time making salt-water, tanks baby :wink: ) and the other goodies I brought with me. A few days after running with ______ pumps/filters/lights (yet to figure this part out), a few “starter” fish/creatures will be added…. This will hopefully start a simple world of its own….

Meanwhile back in new york, when I must be out of here, all remaining display pieces/equipment and fish will shipped/carried am delivery to SF while I take a late night flight to beat them there. (again, in theory) with in 18-24 hours after removing everyone from their homes, they should be transported safely into their new home.

Parameters I would like to keep;
1. 120-150 total tank capacity
2. As large a water container I can fit underneath and around the tank! (I still get messy)
3. I have been reading out a lot about stand size, I understand that I am vertically challenged, but I think I would like to go with a taller stand. 44-48”? I find that nobody really ever looks at the really cool things that grow on the bottom layers of rocks… its to far down….
4. automation.
5. simplicity.

I am not interested in keeping a crazy stocked OH MY!! tank. I want a tank that nobody expects. manicured slice of everyday underwater life, keyword manicured.

I will use the rock I have and the animals I have. at this time, nothing other than a few more fish. Peaceful. Colorful. Agreeable with ms. Isabelle and the blue devil…. I really want to keep a very low bio-load. I don’t really know what to expect for a career/working/time wise environment in the extreme near future. I will have someone reliable to cover a basic tank if need be….. hence the simplicity….

However, here are the immediate needs/questions:

1. where/who’s tank to buy? For certain acrylic. Earthquakes.
2. size? 90-100 (120? More live rock?) I have at least a 15’x6’ space to use
3. current/wavemaking? What should/can I use in conjunction with my wavemasterpro? These will be my last Powerheads. The replacement impellers are way too expensive.
4. build my own stand???? Them suckers ain’t cheap…..
5. local fish store in pacific heights or surrounding?
6. fedex or ups? That’s personal……

 

[Brian5000]

2. Standard sizes up to 120 gal. are 4 feet long, so get whatever you want.

4. If you have the tools down there to do it, a stand that you make will be a lot cheaper and probably more sturdy than anything you can buy. Make sure the interior is tall enough to accomodate any skimmer or other gizmo you might use (select your equipment first and plan the stand around them).

As another vertically challenged person, I can tell you that you will probably need a step stool to do maintanence in the display. That's ok :wink:

6. I've never had any problems with either service.
_________________
Honda Pacific Coast

 

[Anonymous]

Ok first of all, a pre-welcome to the area. You might want to check out one of the local reef clubs www.bareefers.org and ask some questions there as well, as we have quite the support structure around. Hell if you wanted to change your plan around and borrow a tank to house some of your livestock that most likely will be possible, but sounds like you have a good plan, just having a backup is always nice

1: Can't say where to buy since I've never bought a new tank, again, BAR, however don't set yourself on acrylic unless you are absolute prepared to care for it like it was a prized car, keeping scratches away. I hate acrylic for that reason, and earthquakes are not that big of a deal, glass is perfectly fine.

2: 15' x 6' wow sounds like a good sized tank, go big I always say! a 120 is nice with that 2 feet front to back distance, 90 I think is only 18" it becomes important... especially with acrylic!

3: Wavemakers? Can't give any suggestions, just had a talk with Jake Adams, and his conclusion most things labeled as "wavemakers" really aren't. I would stick with a couple (few?) high output low pressure pumps, tunze, maxi-jet mods, vortech whatever.

4: Sure build it, as long as you have the tools, it'll be no problem. Are you going to be in an apartment? or a house?

5: We got some good stores in the area, depending on how high end you are, you will most likely want to drive some place as well. Ocean Treasures on Dubose is a decent one, as is Aquatic Connection on Ocean is another good one, Lucky Ocean on 2nd/Balboa is good for fish, but so much corals unless you don't mind the more "common" stuff (You'll find out we're a spoiled bunch out here with our selection

6: I don't think it matters however get it such that you can pick it up at the depot, that way you don't have to worry about your fish driving around in a truck all day.

 

[dadstank]

thanks for the welcome... i am stoked about this move!

alright. so i went on a field trip on the way home from work.

while stumbling through website after website looking for “non-work” related stuff…… I came upon zeroedge. 8O

Now I know most of you, are saying something in your heads. Just keep in mind the very first time you ever saw one of these… or anything like it. As I did for the first time around 2 this afternoon. After some hunting, I found that they have a vendor near my office. i HAD to see this for myself; this vendor had 1 floor model that he sold to a guy in town who just opened a new restaurant. Long story, and 3 trains later, I found the new restaurant. Man those tanks are sweet. In theory.
If they weren’t so much damn money it have been ordered…… lucky for me, while I was trying to find the place on google earth, I saw a sign that looked like a fish. Low and behold google, I love google, told me there was a mom and pop pet store across the street. Called, and the guy is a big time reef guy. Nice old man. I wanted to talk tanks; he wanted to talk about spain. Couldn’t get out the store. But nonetheless, I have determined my target size dimensions. 72x24x20-24. he had both sitting in the corner. Unfortunately they were both only about 10” off the ground, so I couldn’t get a real feel for it.

Although, once home, i was looking at the size of my current tank and saying to myself, “damn, self. That is some serious extra space!”

All-glass has a “125 wide” that is 72x24x17. perrrrfect place to start shopping around…

--also, I realized I asked the wrong question above:

Not whose tank or where should I buy it:

A better question is whose tank did you buy, and why? not size, but manufacturer...



--i should be getting some photos of the new space hopefully tonight… I’ll post one or two later on…

 

[Brian5000]

I bought All-Glass-Aquarium 75 gallon megaflow.

I like it glass because it is relatively durable. Even so, I have still managed to scratch it a couple times (thankfully, just on the side). Meanwhile, I saw a dentist once with an acrylic tank, and he was so fed up with getting scratches all the time. I would never get acrylic just because I'm careless and clutsy like that. The tank wouldn't last a year under my care, but that's just me :roll:

The megaflow part was just an overflow built directly from the tank manufacturer, which I found out was about the same price as the LFS drilling a normal tank. I liked the looks of it, so that's what I went for. It works pretty nice.

Zero-edge is beautiful, but I seem to remeber it is quite expensive. To a pauper like me, the bonuses probably don't quite justify the cost. The ordinary glass box does just fine

If you aren't a pauper and don't care about the price, do whatever you like :wink:
_________________
Honda CBR125RR

 

[Anonymous]

Zero edge is very pricy, however it's a very DIY type thing you can in fact do with a little skill. Issues with them other than price is you NEED to keep them clean or they loose their appeal quickly, and with twice as many sides to clean (inside AND out) not to mention the gutter probably needs cleaning to look nice, you're basically looking at a very load bioload tank (i.e. not many fish at all). Also they don't come in sizes too large IIRC.

As to brand, I think you're safe with any commercial brand you go with, IMO won't make one difference people have had issues with every tank brand/manufacturer out there, so you're not going to find the perfect company. Just if you do go with glass, and you want to drill it, back or bottom make sure it's not tempered BEFORE you buy it.

 

[pcardone]

i have a 90 gal tall. you can get away with one light. i have been leaning over to a 150. but every time I think about the expense of running another halide, I change my mind.

 

[dadstank]

i just found out.
the place i want to rent in SF has electic heat.

uugghh...

 

[Anonymous]

Well your electric bill is going to get hammered that's for sure! Unless you don't mind putting a sweater on in the winters But you being from NY might go in shorts all year round

Now is a newer house? Because the electrical won't be a problem (other than cost that is) if that's the case, simply because you won't be able to plug into that breaker. Now if it's an older house with some half-assed wired electrical heater in the wall, where your lights dim noticeably everytime the heat goes on... then yeah watch out.

That's a reason why I would suggest setting up some sort of temporary tank instead, because if you need to do any work or what not you can get that done. Something like pulling wire to put a couple 15 or 20 amp plugs in.

 

[dadstank]

it is an older house, but completely redone.
i think it will be a huge bill to conquer every month with 2 MH, a slew of pumps, heat, tv, stove, lamps, my love's 1800W hairdryer.... and whatever else modern technology is needed to run...
we are electricity mongrels.....

here in NYC our bill has peaked just a hair over $300.....
with gas everything....

i feel like the providers should be wining and dinning us for our business.......
:wink:

 

[Anonymous]

Don't know how the bills go out in NYC but over here PG&E has "Tiered" power, so you go beyond the baseline, everything beyond that cost a little bit more per kWh, go 150% past.. a little bit more... etc

My advice, MH & T5s, run the MH a few hours a day at most, with T5s on the rest of the time, after all in nature the sun only gets super intense over head for a few hours a day. Stove is electric too? Geeze, you are going to get hammered over in SF, since this city doesn't need A/C except once for a day or two every other year, our "baseline" electrical usage is lower than normal.

Either way check all the wiring if possible, have someone flip off breaker switches while you go around to each plug and plug a lamp in or something just to see what is hooked to what, putting a new breaker isn't that difficult to do, however it can very easily be dangerous. But $300? Doesn't sound outrageous for a reef tank owner.

Gas is nearly $4 a gallon everywhere here, that translates to higher food prices too (although our produce is second to none! ), you'll be paying to live here as it is. Just hope your wife is making some good bucks, and maybe you as well

 

[dadstank]

Electricity…
I have taken stock;
Over a 31 month period I have been using an average of 18.405kWh.
I have had a peak of 39.724 in September 2007. the best month I had was June 2007 at 8.103kWh. I think I spent maybe two full days home that month…

In this apt I am currently running full time nonstop:
1 small window fan
1 computer with whatever is connected that never ever shuts off…
2 powerheads (figure at least 2 out 4 are on at least…)
1 wavemaster pro
1 powerhead return pump
1 skimmer pump
1 small alarm clock
*a/c when needed.
And that’s really it…

the current lights on the tank are:
1 275MH at 6 hours
2 dual corallife compacts 9W at 7hr30

Not as much as I thought.
It’s the a/c that killlllls us when we are hear…
and being wasteful when we are home.....
:roll:

thank goodness this place is going to have a fireplace and i've got the line on cheap firewood.....

How exactly do they charge in SF?
Coned used to do a first/next tier as well…
Now they just ask you to bend over.

Anyone experimenting with solar panels?
Huh, is there is enough sun in lower pacific heights?

As for fuel… if there is any question of a non mass transit commute the vehicle of choice will be a Volkswagen VGI… I’ve got it all planned out… but that’s for the sump.

 

[Anonymous]

Your average usage you listed above is that a daily usage? Because I highly doubt you only use 18.4 kWh in a month. Because your one .275kW bulb x 6 hours x 31 days is over 50 kWh right there.

PG&E (Pacific Gas & Electricity) charges per tier you go onto, the current baseline rate is $0.11589 per kWh however I wouldn't ever plan on hitting that mark with a reef tank That reflects something like 60% of the average energy usage (either gas or electricity) of your area. Now here in SF we get screwed three ways to Sunday because we don't have A/C, which is a mixed blessing, but our "baseline" is lower than say San Jose which "needs" A/C. However we tend to get a break on natural gas prices for the opposite reason, however you having electric heating that won't be very useful... maybe if you have a gas stove and bake a lot

As to solar panels, I'd love to experiment with them, however as it stands it would cost so damn much just to get a single panel up to do some testing that it's not really worth it. I'm sure if I really wanted to I could buy those smaller (not-useful-for-much-of-anything) solar panels and record what that does, however no way off the top of my head of recording all that data, and I'd rather not just have a voltmeter hooked to it coming through the window.

Unsure about sun there though, not terribly familiar with the northern part of SF, other than I know Pacific Heights is a pricier part of the city.

Your problem the sun is going to be coming from the west, so if you're on the wrong side of a hill you could lose sun really quickly. I live just a scosh north of John McLaren Park (F5), and while it does get cloudy here, Isolar is something I've not completely dismissed.

 

[dadstank]

yes, that is a daily average….
monthly would be 18.4x31 = 570.4

we will be on the dividing line of block "B" and "C" 4.

the stove is electric..... unfortunately so is the oven......

 

[Anonymous]

Well at least your gas bill will be low

 

[dadstank]

yea riiiiiight..... i'll spend the savings with my toys don't worry....

 

[Anonymous]

ok out of curiosity was looking around at Solar in SF (found a neat website) and this lead me to the actual rates (don't ask me why I don't know these off the top of my head )

But baseline its .115556 kWh
at 101-130% its 0.13139 kWh
at 131-200% its 0.22708 kWh
at 201-300% its 0.31555 kWh
over 300% its 0.36190 per kWh

So looking at what you called your daily above, you're going to have a lot of 201-300% months

Now the bad news is in SF has it's baseline set at 8.2 kWh per day in the summer, and 9.8 kWh per day in the winter. So only during winter months does SF get partially screwed. Other areas not directly on the coast get upwards of 12 kWh per day.

 

[Anonymous]

man you really got me thinking on solar, looking up a few places, apparently you can get E7 metering, which if you have a system that takes care of your needs sells back power at "peak rates" (day time) and buys back at "off-peak rates" (Night) which is super good because you only make power during peak rates!

Looks like a 3kW system will run about $15k from the DIY route, but then there's tax-credits, state credits, a bunch of other stuff that could possibly get that down even further! Might be a worthy investment considering money won't make much interest in the bank, but not paying much at all for power is an investment in itself! Now I just need to figure out how much my tank really is using.

 

[dadstank]

15K spread over the life of a house.....
if you own of course.....

 

[pcardone]

Sf has pretty mild climate. I live in the bay area with pond, pool, turtle tank, and reef run me about 275-300 a month