Are we culturing "weak" corals for long term survi

[SnowManSnow]

Another post got me thinking. We strive to have pristine marine tanks (a good thing IMO) that always have VERY stable and predictable parameters, but is that really the best thing for coral survival?

In nature water temps on reefs vary from season to season. Storms come through and block out sunlught for a week at a time. All sorts of things happen to create variables in the natural coral environment.

Are we creating a "breed" of weaker corals in our hobby by culturing corals that are "babied" with constant perfect conditions?

I wonder, what the effects would be if we could "time" long periods of gradual temp. and light intensity changes in our tank over the period of years. Would the coral "learn"? (notice the paranthesis).

B

 

[Anonymous]

We came a long way from the time like a decade or two ago that we just dump coral skeletons in the tank and call it a marine aquarium with undergravel filter.

We still not very good at this when it come to coral husbandry, consider the amount of technology and energy we put into that little box. Out in the real world (ocean), She is much better at it then any of us, but Mother Nature seems to have unlimited budget, and a fair large setup.

We just don't have the resource and time to "fool" around like She does, and we have different agenda.

Maybe before we try to teach our coral how to do algebra, we need to make sure we can at least keep them alive and healthy. It is like you have a triplet in neonatal ICU, and you are thinking about how to make sure they get that football scholarships. You are thinking too far ahead.

Take that as a compliment, Mr. Visionary.

 

[SnowManSnow]

My real question is: Are we making WEAKER corals by subjecting them to what we would deem perfect conditions?

Would the survivabilty of a particular coral be increased (over the period of a few hundred years), if we were to subject them to the same demanding parameters that nature sometimes does?

I thinka case for this is the recent problem with elegance corals. There was a time that elegance corals were some of the easiest in the h obby to maintain, but over the past 25 years or so they have become increasingly difficult to keep alive in an aquarium. Is this because we are getting "weak" ones from culture facilities?

B

 

[iseeweed]

I totally see your point of view. Kinda like we ourselves are breeding super strong bacteria and bacterial infections because of our long term overuse of antibiotics(MRSA)
Not sure what could be done though, I would love a nice sps that was as easy to take care of as a puppy :?

 

[Anonymous]

>...My real question is: Are we making WEAKER corals by subjecting them to what we would deem perfect conditions?

I don't know much about the elegance coral issue, but I doubt that any of us are subjecting coral to near perfect conditions, IMHO.

 

[Anonymous]

Snow, generally captive prorogation results in critters that are more adapted to captive life. Our tank conditions are normally less stable, and less "ideal" by any measure you care to take.

Discus are a good example of captive breeding resulting in far more forgiving animals. Captive corals generally grow better as well, what does that tell you?

I would worry more about diluted color than anything.

 

[Anonymous]

I thinka case for this is the recent problem with elegance corals. There was a time that elegance corals were some of the easiest in the h obby to maintain, but over the past 25 years or so they have become increasingly difficult to keep alive in an aquarium. Is this because we are getting "weak" ones from culture facilities?

B

Elegance are not cultured, and that's the problem with them Snow. When I first started out, the specimens collected were easy to keep. I had one under really primitive conditions by today's standards for almost five years. It was huge! But the ones they collect today (from deeper water due to overcollection I understand) are obviously far more suseptible to whatever pathogen they are encountering in the long journey from collection through wholesaler to LFS to your tank. What a heartbreaker too! Those are among my favorite corals.

 

[Anonymous]

Elegance... But the ones they collect today (from deeper water due to overcollection I understand).

And that's it in a nutshell. I'm not entirely sure I ever bought into the entire pathogen issue, but the change in collection locale really seems to be the exact marker for when they suddenly went from being ridiculously easy to 90%+ mortality rates.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm not sure I buy the pathogen claim either. Friend of mine brings in normal old Indo elegance. They do great and don't do the new blow up and die deal. Why? He talked with his divers and found instead of 30' they're coming from 60+. That's a big difference in lighting He keeps them tanked with very little light and they look fantastic.

 

[Anonymous]

May I ask if it is that simple Gresh, why aren't others doing it? I love those corals...

 

[Anonymous]

A bad supplier is a bad supplier. They may not simply have the contact my friend does or they may need more then that supplier can handle so they deal with the bigger guys. It's hard to say really

 

[SnowManSnow]

im not a diver so i dont know, but is there a cost issue with diving to 60ft to collect corals, rather than just 30? If it's cheaper, then most would just take the cheap rout I would imagine.

b

 

[Anonymous]

It's quicker to go to 30'. It's safer to go to 30'. You can work much longer at 30'.

 

[Anonymous]

Interesting Gresh, I've heard similar things said about 31' and 32' as well.

 

[Ben1]

I am sure there are skin divers that dont even go to 30' to get corals. I know when I scuba 40' or less I can be down for a long long time, basically at that depth is more of when I am at 500psi then when my nitrogen limit is reached. 60' isnt bad either, still get long dives in.

I still imagine there are a lot of skin divers with chisels collecting in shallower depths.

 

[Anonymous]

You are correct on all points (many are collected by "skin" divers. One thing you need to realize is they aren't diving like most divers. They surface a ton of times, even on SCUBA, to drop off the trays. Up and down diving leads to the bends a lot faster in most cases then simply being at depth for the duration.

As a divemaster I fully grasp what they go thru. I have had to do a lot of up/down diving myself. Nothing like them but for every one dive my students did I would have twice as many up/downs as them and sometime even more if I was on anchor setting duty. Working underwater is nothing like diving, it sucks quite often.

 

[JeremyR]

I don't think it's nearly that simple. Noobs still kill elegance, and they have the tanks that have crappy lights and such. I"ve seen lots of people operate on the "lower light" theory and fail miserably.

On the flip side, I've seen some of the "australian" elegance do quite well.