GFI & Electrical Question

[FifeReef]

This weekend I had an electrical event with my system. Fortunately the problem has been solved, but it led to some questions I thought I had understood until now.

I woke up Saturday morning to most of my equipment shut down. One of the GFI circuits had tripped. I restarted to see if it would trip again and it did not. Naturally I was curious and when I touched my sump where it was a little damp I got a fairly decent tingling shock. After checking my equipment by unplugging one at a time I soon discovered it was my UV sterilizer which had a cracked housing. It will be replaced, problem solved. But this brings me to ask the following questions perhaps someone can enlighten me. I should also mention I am using a grounding probe in my system.

1) Why did the GFI trip once and not imediately again upon resetting with the offending piece of equipment still plugged in?
2) When I touched the wet surface of the tank being grounded to the floor, why didn't the GFI trip?
3) Has anyone ever installed some sort of permanent multi-meter setup where you could quickly turn it on to check for excess current before performing maintenance where reaching into the water is necessary? Just as a fail safe? Thanks

 

[Anonymous]

Sounds like a defective GFI to me.

Louey

 

[Anonymous]

Household 110 tickles.





Oh, yeah, sorry... - What Louey said.

 

[FifeReef]

I thought about the possibility of a defective GFI. But when I try the test button it pops. Would it pop even if it was defective?

 

[FifeReef]

I thought about the possibility of a defective GFI. But when I try the test button it pops. Would it pop even if it was defective?

 

[Anonymous]

Is there any other source of power aside from the GFI that could have given you the jolt?

It is possible that the GFI is still defective even though the trip-reset button works.

Louey

 

[wrasseman]

if the gfi tripped it was doing its job ,but that tingle should of tripped it also,no question asked ! replace it ,its cheap in the grand sceme of things . also i.ve had problems with my gfi tripping because of vibration ,if it messed mine up that way maybe it can mess it up in another way so i would replace it .that just my opinion

 

[kgross]

This shows one good reason for multiple GFCI's if something causes one to trip you will still have power to most devices so hopefully nothing in the tank dies.

But it does sound like your GFCI is no longer working correctly, I would replace it.

Kim

 

[wrasseman]

i ended up buying a G F I circuit breaker that was installed in my breaker box to rid myself of unexpected trips . dont really understand why vibration can mess with them but i have had no problems ever since it was installed .also a question to be asked was , can high humidity and salt residue from being near the sump mess with them ? i got a blank stair from my electrical wizard ,so we put it in the breaker box , all,s fine now good luck

 

[kgross]

The ones in the breaker are normally a lot higher quality then the plug in versions. The humidty can cause corrosion that will effect its operation.

kim

 

[FifeReef]

Thanks for the tips guys. I'm calling an electrician tomorrow to inquire about installing a breaker panel GFI and an additional circuit. Might as well bite the bullet and get it done right. I spent all day checking equipment and outlets. One time when I unplugged something from the GFI outlet itself it tripped! Makes me nervous to reach my hand inside the tank ever again. I have to admit, it kind of freaked me out. 8O

 

[wrasseman]

good deal the tingle you got scares me ! also one other thing ,i have 2 tank sumps that i built a little air too air tight and they tended to get moisture on everything . so what i did was to vent them and run a 4 inch fan 24/7 evacuating air and it completly ended the problem ,food for thought ? good luck dave

 

[FifeReef]

Interesting Update: Electrician visited today and spent about an hour going through my outlets. I had prepared for him by taking alot of my non-essential life support of my system apart and took advantage by doing some cleaning, maintenance, etc. He found one outlet that wasn't properly grounded, and a hot wire that had come loose from a wire nut. He also replaced the GFI outlet. He wasn't sure that was the problem, but at least it's fixed.

The interesting thing is that I'm still getting about 4 volts on the micrometer when all the equipment is up and running. It's not enough to really sense in the water, but it still bugs me. Every piece that is plugged in seems to add a few 1/10ths of a volt stray power into the water. Everything is wired properly as far as he could tell. With the titanium ground it drops to about 1/100th of a volt. The electrican was at a loss as to why, except that he has had cases where the power companies underground high capacity lines can actually have a problem and leak small amounts of stray power into the ground. He said he would call the power company and have them run a test to check for that as they'd want to know about it.

Just curious what others are measuring in the water of their systems?

 

[wrasseman]

zip , zero , nada hi have absolutly no power leaks ! how are you measuring this leak ? from groung to the water ,or from the hot side to the water i would say the second will get a reading im gonna check and let you know what it reads . a gfi should kick off down in the milli amp
range. if your picking up stray voltage in the volt range,you say 4 volts there is no way that gfi shouldnt pop off ! kinda baffling to me but ive been stumped before , let me know on the power company thing thats interesting g l dave oh yea dont get confused gfi,s pop off with ampers not volts so theres something weird going on here .

 

[FifeReef]

Even more interesting! Tonight I get home and the 4 volts are gone. It is measuring somewhere in the .003 volts range. Which is basically nothing. This is going from the concrete floor of the pump room to the water. This led me to believe maybe the voltage I was picking up is indeed from the concrete floor?

So I called the power company and they said it would be extremely improbible that there would be a voltage leak in a residentual neighborhood that would be measureable unless the line was almost under the concrete. So I guess I won't worry about it too much.

Oh another thing an electrical engineer told me at work today. Contrary to popular believe in his opinion you should NEVER run a ground probe in your tank. He pointed out that it is current that kills, not voltage. The voltage in the water does not affect anything in the tank as long as it isn't traveling. As soon as you put someplace for it to go, i.e. the ground probe, you have a current and the inhabitants will feel if they get in between the two. Think of it has a bird sitting on a high voltage power line. As long as he doesn't touch two lines the current won't travel through him. He also pointed out that this may actually PREVENT your GFI circuit from tripping in the event of a dangerous condition. The GFI measures current in versus out. If you are grounding back into the electrical system, it sense everything is balanced fine and might not trip. I have removed mine.

 

[wrasseman]

sounds cool, let us know ,like i said amps not voltage is what a gfi gets trippd by .i took my probes out of my tanks and have had them in my sumps .some dont even have one ,i dont SEE a difference ,i heard it could cause lateral line disease none of my fish have it in any of my 17 tanks so whats really true . your finding out that opinions are like a holes every bodys got one !

 

[Ben1]

Oh another thing an electrical engineer told me at work today. Contrary to popular believe in his opinion you should NEVER run a ground probe in your tank. He pointed out that it is current that kills, not voltage. The voltage in the water does not affect anything in the tank as long as it isn't traveling. As soon as you put someplace for it to go, i.e. the ground probe, you have a current and the inhabitants will feel if they get in between the two.

A lot of people dont use grounding probes for that reason. If the electric has no where to go it wont electricute anything.

 

[Anonymous]

A lot of people dont use grounding probes for that reason. If the electric has no where to go it wont electricute anything.

:wink:

Its just that damn "potential" that makes things so interesting...