Building a reef tank proposal, Help Needed.

[ThrillYa]

Well, I have a friend that owns a couple restaurants and he wants to have the "reef tank behind the bar" dream.

I've been maintaining my small, 65 gallon reef for 6 years now and have maintained several others' reef tanks but have not tackled anything of this magnitude.

At this point they are asking me for an estimate for the top tier system. I've asked but not received a budget so I'm making this first pass a high end system that will most likely be shrunk down when the final price tag is seen.

Want to help? I'll give some specifications and you can let me know what you'd do.

Wall space available: about 8' long but must be above liquor bottles so bottom of tank would be 5' off the floor.
Viewable from two sides. Bar on one side and dining room on the other. The wall will be widened to accommodate the tank.

They are open to walling off additional space for the needed equipment. Of course we have the space below the display and since it will be 5' off the floor we have even more space than normal. We are still playing with ideas of where to steal space from but one idea is a triangular space about 10' down the wall that the display will be in. The space may be as small as a 6' sided equilateral triangle. I know, kind of limiting. Other spaces are being considered.

Thanks much for any and all suggestions/visions.

Here's a picture of the space available:

 

[Ben1]

Is there a basement this could be plubled to? If so I would look into just plumbing the sump down below, this would solve many issues.

I would hate to be the one to scrape coraline off of a tank that high but I guess it needs to be.

Being viewable from 2 sides I would think you would want a minumum width of 24", maybe like a 96" x 24" x 30" would be 300 gal. For the tank alone, all starfire with overflows on the middle of the side panels instead of corners I would imagine a price tag close to $2000-$2300ish

The you still need a skimmer (bubbleking) that can handle a 300 gal tank, a way to move alot of water probably tunze or vortechs, a sump large enough to also have a built in fuge, and lighting. Just to start...

What type of reef is he dreaming of, something woth lots of swaying and movement, or a colored stick garden?

 

[ThrillYa]

Thanks for the quick feedback Ben.

Is there a basement this could be plubled to? If so I would look into just plumbing the sump down below, this would solve many issues.

The restaurant is located in a multi-story office building. They are located on the ground level. There are two levels of underground parking. The interesting thing is that they have a small "office" on the first basement level. The only issue is the small office is not directly below the tank. Further investigation is needed to see how far away it is and if plumbing is possible.

I would hate to be the one to scrape coraline off of a tank that high but I guess it needs to be.

Yes, I've considered the difficulty working in a tank this high above the ground but I'd rather do that than have a fish only setup.

Being viewable from 2 sides I would think you would want a minumum width of 24", maybe like a 96" x 24" x 30" would be 300 gal. For the tank alone, all starfire with overflows on the middle of the side panels instead of corners I would imagine a price tag close to $2000-$2300ish

I got a quote from GlassCages for 96" x 36" x 36", starphire and overflows as you describe, that came in at $3650. Those dimensions make the tank about 500 gallon. I'm leaning toward closer to what you suggest at 96" x 30" x 30". I think that width would work very well but wonder if I need more height to fill the space and have an even bigger WOW factor.

The you still need a skimmer (bubbleking) that can handle a 300 gal tank, a way to move alot of water probably tunze or vortechs, a sump large enough to also have a built in fuge, and lighting. Just to start...

I'm gleaming everything I can from Louey's 300 gallon build which has all flow coming from the ends of the tank.

What type of reef is he dreaming of, something woth lots of swaying and movement, or a colored stick garden?

Good question. I think he's primarily looking for the colors and diversity. I'm sure I could sway him in whatever direction.

 

[kgross]

Sounds like it could be a lot of fun. I would say you could go with a standard 8 foot 240, it would work well, but moving to a little wider would be nice.

Sounds like you are stuck with sump/etc under the tank. I would say get a normal 75 or 125 for the sump. That way you end up with extra space for Ca reactor if needed, kalk reactor pumps etc.

I would have the tank built with an overflow in one end and do the returns on the other end so all water is pushed from one end to the other.

Flow I would go with 2 of the vortec units (if you go LPS/Softy route which I would suggest for a public display people seem to like the movement more than the colors) plus you will need large corals for people to see from a distance. For an SPS tank, you could do 4 of the vortecs, or a combo of vortecs and a closed loop.

Skimmer, if you go soft coral/lps you would not need a large of a skimmer as if it is an SPS tank LPS/softy 240 gallon, I would do something like the Octopus pro 300, if you go SPS, get a reefloo Orca 250 skimmer.

Lights if you go lps/softy, I would do 2 8x54 T5ho lights on the tank. If you go sps, I would do 4 250 watt halides with good reflectors, if you want high light sps, on a deep tank you would want 400 watt halides, but then you need someway to get rid of all the heat.

Kim

 

[ThrillYa]

Thanks for your input too Kim.

I would have the tank built with an overflow in one end and do the returns on the other end so all water is pushed from one end to the other.

It seems like that would make for some good constant flow but wouldn't it make it more difficult to mix it up? I mean difficult to add some random direction changes to the flow. Do you think that is really needed?

Flow I would go with 2 of the vortec units (if you go LPS/Softy route which I would suggest for a public display people seem to like the movement more than the colors) plus you will need large corals for people to see from a distance. For an SPS tank, you could do 4 of the vortecs, or a combo of vortecs and a closed loop.

I have mostly LPS in my tank and agree that they would look nice in a tank such as this. If you put in a closed loop what would you recommend? OceansMotions 4-way with returns to all 4 corners perhaps? Would that work well with your idea of returns on opposite end from overflows?

Skimmer, if you go soft coral/lps you would not need a large of a skimmer as if it is an SPS tank LPS/softy 240 gallon, I would do something like the Octopus pro 300, if you go SPS, get a reefloo Orca 250 skimmer.

This is one place I don't want to scrimp. I hear good things about BubbleKing like Ben suggested. I currently have a hang on so I don't have much experience with "real" skimmers.

Lights if you go lps/softy, I would do 2 8x54 T5ho lights on the tank. If you go sps, I would do 4 250 watt halides with good reflectors, if you want high light sps, on a deep tank you would want 400 watt halides, but then you need someway to get rid of all the heat.

I'd like to have options as time goes on so I was leaning toward a 400W MH setup but am not married to the idea as of yet. And, I was thinking of a 36" tall tank when I started leaning toward the 400s.

Thanks again,
Mike

 

[ThrillYa]

If you went BubbleKing for the skimmer, what one would you suggest? Assume the display is around 300g, heavily stocked.

 

[kgross]

Flow.

Either 2 of the vortex with the controller that way you can ramp them up and down to create a swaying motion. The closed loop will work great also, with the OM 4 way (that is what I have on my 180)

I would not say the octopus Pro is skimping, but if you want a better skimmer go for the bubble king 300, only around $2000 buxes or like I said go for the reefflo orca 250
it is a monster, but is only around 1250.

http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant ... de=reefflo

Lighting just remember to think about heat. It does not sound like you will have any way to vent heat outside of the tank area, so you need to limit heat as much as possible, that is one big plus for the vortecs, and going with the T5 lights.

Kim

 

[ThrillYa]

Lighting just remember to think about heat. It does not sound like you will have any way to vent heat outside of the tank area, so you need to limit heat as much as possible, that is one big plus for the vortecs, and going with the T5 lights.

I'm hoping there is access to the building ventilation system. My idea is to possibly vent air directly off Lumenarc reflectors into the building's system. Is there any reason that would be a bad idea? The only thing I can think of would be any salt being vented into the building's system might not be good.

 

[ThrillYa]

How about Calcium Reactor and/or Kalc setups? Any suggestions there?

 

[kgross]

If you do soft corals you don't really need a ca reactor or kalk reactor, and if you end up with more lps or sps, you will need a bigger reactor. So until you decide what are going to put into the tank, those questions can't be answered.

Kim

 

[ThrillYa]

It is definitely going to have LPS and possibly SPS as well. In order to keep my options open I guess I'll plan for high calcium needs.

 

[Anonymous]

When I envision a large tank build for my self, I always think that I am going hide the last 6-8 inches of each end of the tank inside the wall. This way the Tunze Streams or Vortech pumps (which ever I would choose) and the cords would be totally hidden from sight.


Also, I would want to have as little plumbing as possible. No closed loops, no multiple return pumps, no sinking $$ into huge external pumps.

Last wish - a sump that:

1) Is elevated so that it can be siphon drained.
2) Is large enough to do at least a 50% water change without having to add/remove water from the display.

 

[Ben1]

1) Is elevated so that it can be siphon drained.

+1 to that as they say..

 

[ThrillYa]

When I envision a large tank build for my self, I always think that I am going hide the last 6-8 inches of each end of the tank inside the wall. This way the Tunze Streams or Vortech pumps (which ever I would choose) and the cords would be totally hidden from sight.

I like the way you think. I've got some sketches illustrating that exact design.

Also, I would want to have as little plumbing as possible. No closed loops, no multiple return pumps, no sinking $$ into huge external pumps.

I too don't like the complexity of these things but I guess I believe they are necessary. How else can I get the flow high enough to to enjoy the benefits of a high flow rate?

Last wish - a sump that:
1) Is elevated so that it can be siphon drained.
2) Is large enough to do at least a 50% water change without having to add/remove water from the display.

Wow, I like that too! I may even have enough vertical space to raise the sump but in order to support the 50% water change.. now that's another story. I'll have to give that some thought. In this case I don't think room is available but.. I'll keep it in mind if we decide to move the sump downstairs.

Thanks much for your thoughts.

 

[kgross]

I too don't like the complexity of these things but I guess I believe they are necessary. How else can I get the flow high enough to to enjoy the benefits of a high flow rate?

Vortec, Tunze Stream, Korrila Magnum.

 

[Anonymous]

I too don't like the complexity of these things but I guess I believe they are necessary. How else can I get the flow high enough to to enjoy the benefits of a high flow rate?

Vortec, Tunze Stream, Korrila Magnum.

+1