Another kalk options thread

[Anonymous]

So how have you always dosed kalkwasser? I used to use the combo Tunze osmolator and kalk dispenser option, which I'd like to again, given its simplicity and ease of use. But if there's a better option that you use, let me know!

 

[Anonymous]

Hey Tom, I always used gravity drip systems, but they aren't always a pretty option unless you have plenty of room under the tank and on top of the sump. I am a bit out of the loop with newer equipment, not even sure how the osmolator works. I really like the idea of peristaltic pumps, so your reservoir can be of unlimited size and can sit on the floor under the tank (next to the sump?). Hopefully some others will chime in.

 

[Anonymous]

The osmolator basically is a top-up system, adding fresh RO water to replace that lost through evaporation. They sell a calcium dispenser (essentially a plastic flask) to go with it - you fill it with RO and add kalk. The downsides are that the amount of kalk added is dependent on your evaporation rate rather than the aquarium's needs, there is no stirrer, so the kalk is not kept in suspension (though a shake once in a while sees to that) and that the set up is sometimes prone to kalkwasser seeping back into the small pump, leading to it having to be replaced. On the plus side, it's cheaper than buying a separate kalk reactor and simple to use.

I like your peristaltic pump idea, but I seem to remember good ones can be quite pricey.

Thread retitled to reach a wider audience. Thanks for your input!

 

[Sea Turtle]

I have always used the LiterMeter III with all three pumps. (Ca, Alk and RO/DI water top off) I really like it. Bit pricey though.

 

[Len]

I use a BAR Aquatics kalkreactor fed with a LiterMeterIII. I use it because once set, it's pretty much hands off for a few weeks (or months if you're lazy).

 

[Anonymous]

I have always used the LiterMeter III with all three pumps. (Ca, Alk and RO/DI water top off) I really like it. Bit pricey though.

Thanks Sea Turtle, that looks very interesting and the online vendor I want to use has it. Does it come with a sensor for water level, or do you have to programme in an estimate of what you lose in evaporation every day? I guess you could link it up to a sensor, but that kind of increases the cost...

 

[Anonymous]

Sounds like I'd need the Top-off Control Module as a water level sensor, but it's only about $40. Hmmm.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Okay, here's the deal on this. I was very confused also when I first purchased it. The top off control module is good to have. You definitely want to purchase this with the unit. This control will not just regulate your water top off pump but all three of them. You hook it into the LiterMeter and suction it on the glass inside your sump at a certain level. I have mine set at about 3 inches above the current water line. That way if for some reason you do add too much of anything it will shut them all down.

As for replenishing your evaporated water, you need to try to calibrate this on your own, which isn’t hard at all. What I did was put a little strip of tape on the glass in the sump at the level where I want it to remain constant. Then set the pump to a value like 4500 ml/day. Check it every night. If the water’s a little above your tape line, lower the dosage per day. And likewise if it’s bellow the desired level. It takes a little time but eventually it will keep it right on that line, replenishing it at the same rate it evaporates. This method is much better than just pouring water in at the end of each day as you won’t get any swings in your salinity level. I used a 5 gallon Poland spring bottle with the handle from an office water stand for the fresh water. Empty’s it every 5 day or so.

Set up your other two remote pumps for your 2-part solution. I hardly ever have to check on this. Set it and forget it.

 

[Anonymous]

I use a BAR Aquatics kalkreactor fed with a LiterMeterIII. I use it because once set, it's pretty much hands off for a few weeks (or months if you're lazy).

Whoops, missed this. Thanks Len, I'll check out the BAR kalkreactor.

 

[Anonymous]

Okay, here's the deal on this. I was very confused also when I first purchased it. The top off control module is good to have. You definitely want to purchase this with the unit. This control will not just regulate your water top off pump but all three of them. You hook it into the LiterMeter and suction it on the glass inside your sump at a certain level. I have mine set at about 3 inches above the current water line. That way if for some reason you do add too much of anything it will shut them all down.

As for replenishing your evaporated water, you need to try to calibrate this on your own, which isn’t hard at all. What I did was put a little strip of tape on the glass in the sump at the level where I want it to remain constant. Then set the pump to a value like 4500 ml/day. Check it every night. If the water’s a little above your tape line, lower the dosage per day. And likewise if it’s bellow the desired level. It takes a little time but eventually it will keep it right on that line, replenishing it at the same rate it evaporates. This method is much better than just pouring water in at the end of each day as you won’t get any swings in your salinity level. I used a 5 gallon Poland spring bottle with the handle from an office water stand for the fresh water. Empty’s it every 5 day or so.

Set up your other two remote pumps for your 2-part solution. I hardly ever have to check on this. Set it and forget it.

Thanks Sea Turtle, that's really helpful.

Hmm. Still a lot more work than the Tunze osmolator option though, which constantly checks your water level with an optical sensor and replenishes constantly (which of course means very stable salinity). Also, how does it work with variations in evaporation? Or do evaporation rates tend to stay constant? With the osmolator on my last tank, I never had to worry about fluctuations...

How does the dosing of Kalkwasser affect the top-off dosing? I'm guessing you have to factor in how much kalkwasser you're adding a day into how much fresh you programme the litermeter to add.

 

[Anonymous]

I don't trust relying on the level of my sump to automatically add fresh water. There are way too many things that can go catastrophically wrong. If your skimmer goes nuts, or your sump pops a leak, or a joint suddenly fails, or whatever, any loss of water will be made up by DI/kalkwasser. I've heard way too many horror stories of tank crashes that all began with that (in my mind) fatal design flaw.

If your evaporation rate varies, no big deal. Changing the dose rate on the LM3 is as easy as changing the channel on your TV.

 

[Sea Turtle]

The LiterMeter III does dose at a constant pace. I would say that is spits out a couple of ml every 10 minutes or so. It is constantly replenishing all day. That's why you won't have any changes in salinity. Yes, it will replenish at the same rate it evaporates.

Variations in evaporation will effect it, yes. I have had a large change in evaporation rates since winter has set in. Winter is very dry and just sucks moisture out of the air. You will notice this if you maintain your tank. Just adjust the dosing rate for winter, it;s really not bad. Summer comes along and you lower the dosing rate. Maybe there's better ways... I like this one. I have a few friends that have very advanced tanks and they prefer this method.

 

[Sea Turtle]

If you don't have an enourmous thirst for calcium the LeterMeter is the way to go. Hands down. My tank is 75 gallons plus a 30 gallon sump. I have about 40 sps corals, clams, etc. and I still have to reduce the B-ionic 2 part solutions by 50% with RO/DI water. I can't imagine how much coral you would have to have to surpass the LiterMeter capabilites.

Also, I agree with Matt, if you have a float system and you spring a leak, that thing is going to keep pumping fresh water enlessly. Not good! Also, I use a filter sock on the return to the sump. When it gets crudded up the water raises inside the sock removing about a gallon from the sump level. If you had a float system, it would be fooled resulting in more fresh water to keep the level constant in the sump, resulting in a lower salinity level. The LeterMeterIII doses the same rate as the evaporation taking place regardless of the water level...

 

[Ben1]

+1 on the LM3, I use same as Sea Turtle, LM3, top off module, 2 extra pumps for 2 part additions. Its an awesome set up.

 

[Anonymous]

I love my dual float switches that control my top off and kalk. I hate the idea of setting a feed rate and hope it keeps up with evaporation through the seasons. It seems like a PITA to me to have to be worrying if your TO is keeping up with evaporation rates that change constantly. Seems to me the point of automation is to automate - if you have to check it all the time, might as well add water by hand.

There is plenty you can do to offset the potential problems mentioned in this thread.

I have a DI revisor that feeds the kalk reactor, so it can't fill forever if something goes wrong.

My skimmate goes to an external collection bucket and the skimmer is plugged into a float switch in the bucket. So the skimmer can only go nuts for about 5 gallons before it turns off.

If you spring a leak or a joint fails the pump that is connected to the float switch should only be set to pump a trickle and pretty much any leak or broken pipe or joint or fast loss of water from the system won't be able to be made up by the ATO.

I think there really is no difference between something like a liter meter and a valved pump. The point is to limit the flow so if something goes wrong, big deal.

Filter socks? Eww. I don't bother anymore.


IMO its like anything else - you got to plan it well. Can something go wrong? Sure, but thats the case with just about anything. Top off with a liter meeter but don't adjust the rate during a hot wave and your salinity can spike.

Tom, currently I dose with a valved maxijet on a dual float switch. It pumps water from the DI resivor into the DIY kalk reactor with gravity feeds into the sump. I may change out the maxijet for a peristaltic pump, but leave everything else the same.

I don't trust the optical sensors. I like the double float switches which give you back up to shut off the pump if the first switch fails. I pull the float switches and soak them in vinegar for a day every six months or so or if I am leaving town for a few days.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks all, this is really useful material to feed into my thinking.

On the danger of the pump sticking with optical sensors, that is sometimes a problem with the osmolator (e.g. when the sensor gets encrusted with calcium deposits - but this take ages and can be mitigated against with a clean every couple of months), but it does also come with a float switch that acts as a safety feature against the risk of the pump sticking on. If the water level hits the float switch, it cuts out. Plus Tunze recommend you only use a certain size of reservoir, proportionate to the size of your tank, reducing the scale of potential impact. Also not a fan of filter socks, so don't see that problem occuring.

I think I've with Rich on the hassle of having to constantly adjust the Litermeter 3. However, I do like the principle you are all using of slow, continuous and small additions of kalkwasser to the tank. If I'm not going to do that with the osmolator, I might have to consider a combination of a peristaltic pump and kalkreactor. Given expense involved in the initial set up, it might be that the osmolator carries the burden for the first 6 months and then I switch to the pump/reactor option later on, retaining the osmolator only for topping off evaporation.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Another option that I would really consider changing soon on my LMIII is that you have the option of adding water exchange remote pump. This is really a nice feature if you have the space to hook it up. It allows you to pump water out of your tank (water change) to a drain or bucket and then pump the opposite way new mixed salt water. As long as you have a bucket set up somewhere with mixed saltwater, you can do your water changes hands free. Again, reallly nice feature if you have the space.

 

[Anonymous]

I'd love to automate water changes, but I think you've hit the nail on the head with the point about space. Doubt I'll be able to go down that route. Buckets and hose for me...

 

[Anonymous]

I drip kalk and have an ATO to makeup fresh water.

 

[Sea Turtle]

I'd love to automate water changes, but I think you've hit the nail on the head with the point about space. Doubt I'll be able to go down that route. Buckets and hose for me...

Another thing is that it uses 1/4 inch tubing and it is capable of pumping or pulling up to 40 feet I think. So, it would be very easy to drill a small hole in your floor and run it to the basement.