Dinoflagellates or possibly chyrsophytes?

[Street]

Our tank:
100 gallon live rock/live sand reef tank.
7 fish.
3 shrimp.
2 starfish.
30ish snails.
25ish hermit crabs.
A multitude of stomatella.
15ish corals.

Equipment:
2 wavemaker-controlled powerheads
Strong return pump (at work, exact specs at home)
Protein skimmer
40 gallon sump with 3 sections baffled off (refugium in center)
PO4 reactor

All chemical specs are fine. Nitrates are at zero, obviously nitrites and ammonia are also at zero. Alk is higher, calcium is high, and the only problem is a slightly low pH of 8.0 which I'll be buffering up tonight.

I'm assuming it's dinoflagellates as it looks exactly like this (not my tank):

However, I read this article, which under the heading "Dinoflagellates in the Aquarium: "Snotty" Dinoflagellates and Fish Parasites" says that it probably isn't, in fact, dinoflagellates and is more likely chrysophytes.

In any case, has anyone else had this particular problem? It's bloomed all over my substrate, liverock, and is even seeming to "attack" my hammer coral (it's not brown jelly, I've dealt with that before).

Thus far, my plan is to remove my snails to a quarantine tank, as I've heard dino affect them more than the other creatures in the tank. I did a 24 hour blackout last night, and it seems to have slowed it down. But my coral provider said that just slows their metabolism and to keep the lights on regularly, otherwise efforts to kill it will work less effectively. He told me to raise my pH to 8.4-8.5 and keep my Alk high.

Any other suggestions? I've also heard to avoid doing water changes as to starve it of nutrients. Good idea/bad idea?

Anyone ever successfully eliminate this stuff? Did you have any casualties in the tank?

Thanks!

 

[Len]

Looks like Dinoflagellates to me. Raising alk and pH has historically worked for me. I do this via dripping kalkwasser. I recommend you use kalkwasser since it's a safe, balanced way to raise pH, alk, and Ca. In the long run, you can maintain these levels with two part solutions too (like C-balance or B-ionic). I do not like separate pH or alkalinity buffers. Increasing circulation also helps, as high O2 is actually toxic to Dinoflagellate cells. The other trend I've observed is when my lights get old (or sometimes with brand new bulbs), the blooms start. Replacing my bulbs usually has a positive effect.

 

[Street]

Looks like Dinoflagellates to me. Raising alk and pH has historically worked for me. I do this via dripping kalkwasser. I recommend you use kalkwasser since it's a safe, balanced way to raise pH, alk, and Ca. In the long run, you can maintain these levels with two part solutions too (like C-balance or B-ionic). I do not like separate pH or alkalinity buffers. Increasing circulation also helps, as high O2 is actually toxic to Dinoflagellate cells. The other trend I've observed is when my lights get old (or sometimes with brand new bulbs), the blooms start. Replacing my bulbs usually has a positive effect.

Thank you. Yes, I've been told the pH needs to rise relatively quickly (by my coral/fish provider) but that Kalk can take up to a month to raise the pH by 0.5. So Richard said to just use a buffer to get it to 8.4-8.5 (per buffer instructions, not to cause pH shock) and continue to drip Kalk while maintaining the pH at around 8.4-8.5 until it's all gone.

I forgot to mention that we have halide lighting. Would that affect it with old bulbs? Because they're still piping hot (just burned myself on one the other day)

I've been feeding a tube from outside straight into the air-intake of my protein skimmer. I'll put a third powerhead in the main tank, too. Do you think I should angle them to hit the rocks and the sand (not directly but enough to stir the dino a bit) or is that a bad idea?

 

[Len]

Thank you. Yes, I've been told the pH needs to rise relatively quickly (by my coral/fish provider) but that Kalk can take up to a month to raise the pH by 0.5. So Richard said to just use a buffer to get it to 8.4-8.5 (per buffer instructions, not to cause pH shock) and continue to drip Kalk while maintaining the pH at around 8.4-8.5 until it's all gone.

I forgot to mention that we have halide lighting. Would that affect it with old bulbs? Because they're still piping hot (just burned myself on one the other day)

I've been feeding a tube from outside straight into the air-intake of my protein skimmer. I'll put a third powerhead in the main tank, too. Do you think I should angle them to hit the rocks and the sand (not directly but enough to stir the dino a bit) or is that a bad idea?

You've been misinformed Using kalk will raise your pH gradually but fairly quickly. You can easily go from 8.0 to 8.3 in a week, which is what you should be aiming for (8.5 is too high ... forgot to mention that). It is never a good idea to raise any chemical perimeter quickly. Things get very screwed up very quickly It's best to gradually raise it, and use balanced solutions to do so. This is why kalkwasser or B-ionic/C-balance is preferred over individual additives and buffers.

Old halide bulbs definitely may cause dino and cyano blooms. Halides always run burning hot, regardless of how old they are. Halides generally have a life span around 8-12 months. If you have older bulbs, consider changing them and see if the dino goes away. Your corals will appreciate it too.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Yes, that is definitely dinoflagellates!!! I have recently battled these horrible bacteria and fortunately after almost giving up I won the battle! I had tried a number of things but nothing really seemed to worked. Finally, I purchased a phosphate reactor and lowered the length of time the lights were on per day. I totally turned off the lights for 3 full days to start. This helped me get the upper hand on them right off the bat. Then I set the lights to 6 hours per day and continued this while using the phosphate reactor and NO water changes. Water changes will fuel the bacteria adding beneficial nutrients to the tank. The more water you replace the worse it will get. Trust me, at first I was doing water changes like crazy, my tank was completely covered 100% with the junk. After about 2 weeks or so with the light turned down and the reactor, it was finally gone.

I see that you have a phosphate reactor already. You might want to both replace and increase the phosphate media. I would start there. There are some products out there that claim to work but it all garbage. I tied them all and can first had tell you that they do not work at all.

Good luck.

 

[Anonymous]

I had that stuff when my tank was young, after the cycle it went away. Then I added a DSB and it came back until the sandbed was established, after that it also went away. I cannot say for sure which it was but keeping the nutrient levels down with increased skimming, high quality water changes, and the establishment of sandbed fauna, it went away.

 

[Street]

Thank you. Yes, I've been told the pH needs to rise relatively quickly (by my coral/fish provider) but that Kalk can take up to a month to raise the pH by 0.5. So Richard said to just use a buffer to get it to 8.4-8.5 (per buffer instructions, not to cause pH shock) and continue to drip Kalk while maintaining the pH at around 8.4-8.5 until it's all gone.

I forgot to mention that we have halide lighting. Would that affect it with old bulbs? Because they're still piping hot (just burned myself on one the other day)

I've been feeding a tube from outside straight into the air-intake of my protein skimmer. I'll put a third powerhead in the main tank, too. Do you think I should angle them to hit the rocks and the sand (not directly but enough to stir the dino a bit) or is that a bad idea?

You've been misinformed Using kalk will raise your pH gradually but fairly quickly. You can easily go from 8.0 to 8.3 in a week, which is what you should be aiming for (8.5 is too high ... forgot to mention that). It is never a good idea to raise any chemical perimeter quickly. Things get very screwed up very quickly It's best to gradually raise it, and use balanced solutions to do so. This is why kalkwasser or B-ionic/C-balance is preferred over individual additives and buffers.

Old halide bulbs definitely may cause dino and cyano blooms. Halides always run burning hot, regardless of how old they are. Halides generally have a life span around 8-12 months. If you have older bulbs, consider changing them and see if the dino goes away. Your corals will appreciate it too.

Really? I've been using it for a week and a half per the recommended dosage (top off water with the Kalk mixed in per the carton) and there has only been a pH increase of 0.1. That's why I bought a buffer today.

The article I linked, along with a few other sources, are what recommended a higher pH. It said (along with the other sources) that maintaining it at 8.4-8.5 until the dino was gone would not harm anything else, but kill the dino.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm a little fuzzy on this one, but I seem to remember when I had a problem with this it was almost always connected to silicates in the water usually from an old RO filter that needed to be changed.