Suggestions for fish stocking selection

[Anonymous]

Ben,

I think they look like a really effective solution, but to my eyes an unattractive one. Plus, although ghetto is the wrong word, looking at how well put together the example you've posted looks to be, if I put one together, it really would be the right word!

 

[Anonymous]

At some point reef tanks changed from this idea of a little box where we try to keep the things inside as happy and healthy as possible to a very different concept of a living work of museum art that has to look just perfect.

C'mon Matt. It's possible to do both. Just harder

Of course it's possible to do both! I'm just saying that an uncovered tank is sacrificing one over the other. There are ways of keeping the fish inside the box without ugly-fying it up.

 

[Ben1]

Plus, although ghetto is the wrong word, looking at how well put together the example you've posted looks to be, if I put one together, it really would be the right word!

Lol I hear ya. My tank is euro-braced and having lost a few jumpers still have it open top, I should probably not be the hypocrite and put something on mine. The rimless glass tanks do look sweet too so I understand your wanting to leave it that way.

 

[Anonymous]

At first I kind of felt I was the lightning rod for Matt's righteous anger (I have this image in my head of a ginger Samuel L Jackson), but he's right when it comes down to it. Much as the rimless looks wonderful, it would be upsetting to lose a fish, so why not do something to avoid it? Particularly as the tank I can get isn't huge, possibly increasing the chances of a jumper. Yours tank is a good deal bigger I think.

Also makes me feel I can go for slightly more expensive fish. Sounds awful in retrospect that I was thinking cheaper fish were somehow more expendable...

 

[Anonymous]

Hey Tom, normally I would just bite my tongue if the topic came up but I know you've been here for years and don't take my comments too seriously.

One way of keeping the fish in without dealing with a top is to simply lower the water level in your rimless display by 6" or so, depending on the size of the fish you're keeping. Of course, this is not foolproof (wrasses can really leap), but it will prevent all but the most determined of jumpers without sacrificing certain advantages that an open top offers. I like not having to deal with a cover that has to be removed every time you want to clean or feed or whatever. In your case if you plan on keeping a bunch of gobies the deer netting won't be very effective at keeping them in. They'll fit right through the holes. Of course you can use smaller screen, but then you're sacrificing light penetration.

Here's a photo of Greg Schiemer's old tank with the lid he used to keep in a ribbon eel:

 

[Anonymous]

Holy overstock Mr. Shiemer! 8O

 

[Anonymous]

Holy overstock Mr. Shiemer! 8O

Well, maybe, but look at the tank. Greg took really great care of his fish and had a kick ass 500g tank to move them into when they got larger.

 

[Anonymous]

Hey Tom, normally I would just bite my tongue if the topic came up but I know you've been here for years and don't take my comments too seriously.

To be honest, I reacted badly to begin with because I was a little surprised, but I'm really glad you didn't bite your tongue, as this way I might able to keep fish I want to keep and not worry about them jumping. It was a very good call.

One way of keeping the fish in without dealing with a top is to simply lower the water level in your rimless display by 6" or so, depending on the size of the fish you're keeping. Of course, this is not foolproof (wrasses can really leap), but it will prevent all but the most determined of jumpers without sacrificing certain advantages that an open top offers. I like not having to deal with a cover that has to be removed every time you want to clean or feed or whatever. In your case if you plan on keeping a bunch of gobies the deer netting won't be very effective at keeping them in. They'll fit right through the holes. Of course you can use smaller screen, but then you're sacrificing light penetration.

This is an excellent idea, but beyond my own abilities to create and beyond my abilities in Japanese to explain (and possibly expensive to deliver here, given the cost of doing anything but the most straightforward tank). Plus the slightly simpler option of lowering the water level by 6" in a 18" high tank is a big hit! I'm leaning towards the cover just because of its simplicity. I hear what you're saying about the hassle, but I guess I'll have to deal with that.

 

[Anonymous]

Holy overstock Mr. Shiemer! 8O

Well, maybe, but look at the tank. Greg took really great care of his fish and had a kick ass 500g tank to move them into when they got larger.

Just Joshin'. I am not a tang/angel police guy. I think that overall tank care means more than gallons. The tank looks great.

 

[Anonymous]

Hey Matt, I paid a visit to the LFS today and it's surprising how much is possible when you visit in person and don't rely on the internet/e-mails. Being able to explain what I needed with the aid of a pen and piece of paper also helped! It turns out they can make a canopy of sorts for me, which hopefully will play a similar role to that glass barrier on Greg Schiemer's old tank. It'll be about 15cm high (just a sliver under the 6" you suggest), hopefully high enough to stop all but the most determined fish jumping out.

 

[Anonymous]

BTW, Matt, would fish that might eat the Periclemenes shrimp also eat Thor amboinensis?

 

[Anonymous]

I think I might dump the small, ornamental shrimp idea, as it appears to limit my fish choice so drastically.

Matt, would wrasse be suitable companions for a mandarin? Or would they hassle it/outcompete it? I ask because my LFS usually has an interesting selection of wrasses (if rarely flasher wrasse)? They had a really beauty there when I went yesterday - red with some bright blue markings towards the back. Unfortunately it doesn't appear to be on their website and I've been unable to identify it...

Would a pair of A.percula be suitable tank mates?

 

[Anonymous]

BTW, Matt, would fish that might eat the Periclemenes shrimp also eat Thor amboinensis?

Any fish that can eat the former will certainly eat the latter.

FWIW we keep A. parvulus with both of those shrimps and they do not bother them.

Flasher wrasses may eat them though.

 

[Anonymous]

Matt, would wrasse be suitable companions for a mandarin? Or would they hassle it/outcompete it?

In general not really for many wrasses, because they would eat the same food and possibly pester it. But....

I ask because my LFS usually has an interesting selection of wrasses (if rarely flasher wrasse)? They had a really beauty there when I went yesterday - red with some bright blue markings towards the back. Unfortunately it doesn't appear to be on their website and I've been unable to identify it...

Flasher wrasses would be the one exception of wrasse I would say would be fine with a mandarin in a smallish tank. They don't scour the rocks for food, they are almost entirely zooplankton eaters. They're also pretty much entirely peaceful with something like a mandarin.

Would a pair of A.percula be suitable tank mates?

Perfect.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Matt- very helpful.

BTW, after hours of scouring reference books and the internet, I think I might have the fish at the LFS narrowed down to a sub-adult Coris gaimard..

 

[Anonymous]

Those get about a foot long and are very destructive...

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah, once I realised what it was, I figured it wasn't for me! :lol:

Seriously, it'll be a real dilemma about whether to go for a mandarin or not. I assume it makes sense to wait a good year before buying one anyway, to ensure the tank is well matured with plenty of fauna for it to thrive on. Is it still OK to introduce the other occupants (e.g. N helfrichi, A.percula, Trimma sp. etc) before doing so?

I'm planning to have a refugium in the sump to help with zooplankton, though I'm realistic about the limited role it can probably play. Given that it's main role will be to try and provide critters for the main tank, I assume a combination of sand (not the fine oolitic stuff), live rock rubble and any pieces of live rock I don't need for the main tank is the best way to stock it. Any point in lighting it (i.e. to provide algae for pods to feed on)?

One last question, and thanks for your patience - if I weren't getting the Periclemenes sp/Thor amboinensis, would the A.leptancanthus be a suitable tank mate for the mandarin? If not, I'm starting to reconsider my decision not to go for Chromis viridis, as they are a favorite of the wife's and would provide some welcome movement in the water column. In any case, I will try and see some of the A.parvulus in person - though the pictures I've seen have failed to excite me so far, I know you wouldn't recommend them if they weren't a great little fish. They'd also be a better fit with the small fish theme than the A.leptacanthus from what you say.

If I want to get those shrimp, I might have to set up a nano especially for them. I have a feeling they would get lost in my main tank anyway...

 

[Anonymous]

In any case, I will try and see some of the A.parvulus in person - though the pictures I've seen have failed to excite me so far, I know you wouldn't recommend them if they weren't a great little fish

Speaking for myself, there is no saltwater fish I'd rather keep than these guys. Unfortunately a great deal of their charm is completely lost in pictures. Their neon stripes flash as they swim under bright lighting, but more than that these guys really are pretty tight little schoolers. Get a group of 10 or 20 together and you have a small ball of fish cruising the tank as a group. They also do something hardly any other saltwater fish does in a moderately sized home tank.... they provide a sense of proper scale, at once making the tank appear bigger and making the viewer focus on the tiny details.

That said, tastes differ and if they don't suit yours no worries.

 

[Anonymous]

In any case, I will try and see some of the A.parvulus in person - though the pictures I've seen have failed to excite me so far, I know you wouldn't recommend them if they weren't a great little fish

Speaking for myself, there is no saltwater fish I'd rather keep than these guys. Unfortunately a great deal of their charm is completely lost in pictures. Their neon stripes flash as they swim under bright lighting, but more than that these guys really are pretty tight little schoolers. Get a group of 10 or 20 together and you have a small ball of fish cruising the tank as a group. They also do something hardly any other saltwater fish does in a moderately sized home tank.... they provide a sense of proper scale, at once making the tank appear bigger and making the viewer focus on the tiny details.

That said, tastes differ and if they don't suit yours no worries.

Totally agreed with Chuckmeister on this one.

 

[Anonymous]

Is it still OK to introduce the other occupants (e.g. N helfrichi, A.percula, Trimma sp. etc) before doing so?

Sure!

I'm planning to have a refugium in the sump to help with zooplankton, though I'm realistic about the limited role it can probably play. Given that it's main role will be to try and provide critters for the main tank, I assume a combination of sand (not the fine oolitic stuff), live rock rubble and any pieces of live rock I don't need for the main tank is the best way to stock it. Any point in lighting it (i.e. to provide algae for pods to feed on)?

Yeah, light is good. Some people even hang Brillo pads in the water to provide more pod breeding ground. Maybe surface area is the limitation on their production? I'm probably not a good person to ask because I don't really "believe" in refugiums insofar as their role for providing a food source to the fish. Their are plenty of places inside the main display tank where copepods can get to and a mandarin can't already.

One last question, and thanks for your patience - if I weren't getting the Periclemenes sp/Thor amboinensis, would the A.leptancanthus be a suitable tank mate for the mandarin?

Maybe. A big enough A. leptacanthus might eat a Trimma I'd bet. They might even snag a small A. parvulus. All dependent on the relevant sizes of the individuals of course.

If not, I'm starting to reconsider my decision not to go for Chromis viridis, as they are a favorite of the wife's and would provide some welcome movement in the water column. In any case, I will try and see some of the A.parvulus in person - though the pictures I've seen have failed to excite me so far, I know you wouldn't recommend them if they weren't a great little fish. They'd also be a better fit with the small fish theme than the A.leptacanthus from what you say.

I'd avoid the Chromis viridis. They come in awfully beat up nowadays and most die within a matter of weeks. Besides that, the ones that do make it will end up being surprisingly large and aggressive fish within a few years if they're treated properly. If you've seen adults in big tanks you'll know what I mean. Not really a good fish for small tanks IMO, despite them being a popular nano fish.

If I want to get those shrimp, I might have to set up a nano especially for them. I have a feeling they would get lost in my main tank anyway...

Do it! You could buy a 1g Current USA Betta Cube and plumb it into your main system.