Thoughts on buying frags through Yahoo Auctions?

[Anonymous]

I'm not sure if Yahoo Auctions works the same way in the US as it does in Japan, but assume it started in the US, so maybe people here might have useful experience. In my search for interesting zoas, I've found a vendor on Yahoo Auctions in Japan who is selling some nice looking frags, much nicer colors than the usual zoas you can get from online vendors here. They appear to be a business rather than an individual, with a separate website indicating that they plan to set up a bricks and mortar shop soon, but for now sell via Yahoo Auctions (they have over 500 coral for sale, but around 30 zoas). They seem reasonably reliable (with 533 positive reviews to 7 negative) and here you pay via Yahoo, not direct to the vendor, so I assume my credit card details would be reasonably safe.

I'll only buy if the price is reasonable by the time the deadline comes around, but I've registered now and the only real obstacle to me using them is my wife's sense of caution about paying for anything like this online (up until now I've taken advantage of the daikin system where you pay on delivery to the courier service).

Any thoughts?

 

[Anonymous]

If the auctions there are like those here I have one bit of advice...BEWARE OF PHOTOSHOPPING!

 

[Anonymous]

Good point! Actually, bizarrely, they seem less worrying in this regard than one of my usual established online vendors who only takes photos under very, very blue lights.

What do you think about these shots? Do they look legit to you? They don't seem dodgy to me, but I'm no expert at photography...

For comparison's sake, here's a shot from the aforementioned established online vendor. Also, you might have seen in my tank thread the difference between the picture of those red palys I got from the vendor's website and the shot I took myself. I'm having to learn to expect quite a difference in color!

 

[Anonymous]

I haven't the skill to detect a pic that's been messed with, but does the auction have feedback comments from other buyers on that vendor?

 

[Anonymous]

What do you think about these shots? Do they look legit to you? They don't seem dodgy to me, but I'm no expert at photography...

The first two were either messed with or a blacklight was used in the mix of tank lights when those photos were taken. I'm inclined to think the latter.

Here, I wouldn't use ebay for corals. Even if the photo is representative and you get the animal pictured like they claim (neither of which is a sure thing) most of the sellers pack their stuff very poorly (to get away with the cheapest shipping costs or because they just don't know any better) and usually ship via the cheapest carrier... almost always USPS second day, and with the lousy USPS service I get in my area that's just not an option.

Where you are, I think I'd be more inclined to try out a small order and see how it turns out then go from there.

 

[erikas.boy]

While I'm a total noob in the hobby, I'm a regular user of photoshop, both for my work (as a web developer) and as a hobbiest photographer.

So with that in mind, ask yourself: Where are the whites? There is no white those pics. The lightest you get is light blue. Thus, they were either shot under a blue light (as mentioned above), or the seller popped the blue in PS. They also look like they've jacked the saturation, which makes sense. Shooting through water and glass will dull things, at best. So I assume they have turned up the saturation after the fact. This might not be a problem, because the pictures, as shot, might have not been representative of the actual item. If they're trustworthy, there's nothing wrong with PS'ing an image to bring it back inline with the way it actually looks; the human eye is much better at adjusting to lighting differences then digital cameras! But, of course, the temptation would be to push it a little further. I do it all the time with picutres of people. They don't really need that pimple. Those teeth could be a little whiter. But I'm not selling the people, so I don't feel bad.

Totally aside from the issue of the images, while still being pretty new, I would be very hesitant to buy something I couldn't actually see before purchasing. I have geography in my favour, living in a pretty big city, and being new, I'm not looking for anything particularly rare. If you're still interested, I agree that a small trial order would be a good starting point.

And if those corals actually look that good, share the joy! Let's have pics and links to the seller!

 

[Anonymous]

+1 on the photoshop jobs, even without photoshop its fairly easy to do a white balance (cameras often have this feature) so you can see the colors of the fluorescent pigments when you blast it with blue light, but the white balancing can remove quite a bit of the blue overpowering the CCD.

Also another thing to deal with is the fact most coral shots are taken with macro photography, this means you will see the corals like you will never see them with your naked eye. They'll be large, you'll see all sorts of detail, tiny variations in color all of this that will ordinarily blend in simply because humans eyes can't focus when they're that close to an object and as a result resolution that you have isn't as good.

As to the paying with a credit card bit, there are two real issues, the scammer who doesn't send corals, or just tries to pull one over on you, and the professional thief, who steals your CC and runs up huge bills. It seems Yahoo is providing a gateway between you and the vendor but I can't image that Yahoo cuts a check, or electronically deposits to every person who sells something on there, translation I think its a false sense of security and they really do get your CC info. The scammer is not something you can really deal with, they don't send the corals or they arrive dead, etc then you can dispute with Yahoo or the vendor but that often doesn't go much anywhere, you'll be lucky to get charges reversed. Now I'm not sure about over in Japan, but in the US you can only be held liable for $50 if someone runs your credit card bill through the roof, so there is protection here, not sure about laws there, but a call to your credit card company probably can help fill in the blanks.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for everyone's thoughts on this, very helpful indeed. I'm tempted to see what these end up costing on Sunday evening and if they're relatively good value, I might pull the trigger and see what they're like.

Particularly helpful to hear all the views about photoshopping/creative use of lighting. I wouldn't be surprised at the latter, particularly as the average tank here usually has a raft of different lights over it to accentuate the coral's colors (this is the country which popularised color spots for just this purpose). I wouldn't be surprised if these tanks have the latest LED blue bulbs over them to emphasise/maximise "pop".

Good point about the whites (where they are/would they indicate tweaking of the white balance?). Luckily each of these corals come with a second shot on the site, from slightly further back, including the sand bed. Maybe these give an idea of how close to real life or not the shots are.

Also, just to note, I'm not expecting these to look exactly as they do in my tank as they do in these shots. Rather I'm hoping they give a pretty good indication of balance of colors on each polyp and roughly how they look, knowing that they won't look as pretty under my relatively whiter lighting and thinking anyway at some point that I might try some methods (bluer MH bulb, possible purchase of an Ledio LED fixture) to make them pop without looking like they're sat in a blueberry slushie.

As an additional side note, these are the nicest frags of those color variations. There are others which aren't as big, not quite as immediately good looking that might be cheaper pick ups if these sell for more than I want to pay, so I have a back up option as a relatively cheap dipping of my toe in the water.

 

[Anonymous]

Oh, and Mike, about the credit card thing. Japan has only recently got to the point where they're used widely (in the last few years anyway) and there is still a lot of nervousness about using them (pace my wife's reaction), so I think the Yahoo system is probably very secure actually, probably set up specifically to address these nerves. Plus the technology should be there I'd think to have that system where the vendor gets paid by Yahoo and doesn't get your card details (the system I'm talking about, btw, is not one used by all vendors on Yahoo, but it seems to be used by the more established ones/stores).

 

[Anonymous]

If it helps any.... ran this through the auto-correct adjustments in photoshop and turned the saturation down. Think of it as a "best guess".

 

[Anonymous]

Heh. Wouldn't that process also make normal photos look a bit odd?

Actually, allowing for some graininess in that adjusted shot, the colors look alright to me.

Whichever way, if I do end going for this, I'll let you all see some shots in the tank as well. :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

Heh. Wouldn't that process also make normal photos look a bit odd?

Depends a lot on the photo. The auto-adjust features try to bring a pic into looking like it was shot under regular daytime conditions while trying to color-correct anything that looks too out there or too washed out. They're hardly the equivalent of rocket scientists, but it was a quick way to play with the pic

Actually, allowing for some graininess in that adjusted shot, the colors look alright to me.

Yeah, they're not bad at all IMO.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks CJ. Well, we'll see whether the price spikes too high on Sunday (closing day for bids). At the moment, they're all on 1 yen each, bar one frag (the orange "white" and green) which is on 47 yen. I'm not sure why people bid small amounts at this stage long before the deadline. Maybe it's another way of tracking the lot or helps make bidding quicker later, I'm not sure.

 

[Anonymous]

Don't get caught up in the auction frenzy. You might wind up paying 100 yen for some brown polyps.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Mitchell. I'm mentally setting myself some limits - essentially under what I think would be a fair market price (under because I don't know how trustworthy/reliable the vendor/photos are).

BTW, 100 yen is about a dollar, so even for some brown polyps, it wouldn't be that bad a price.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Mitchell. I'm mentally setting myself some limits - essentially under what I think would be a fair market price (under because I don't know how trustworthy/reliable the vendor/photos are).

BTW, 100 yen is about a dollar, so even for some brown polyps, it wouldn't be that bad a price.

Ooops. Forgot a few zeros.
How about 1 million yen?

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah, that'd be about $10,000, slightly over my budget. :lol:

I'm thinking about $10-$15 for the small frags (some of which look like they are not 100% open from the photos) and $25-$30 max for the big mini-colonies which look healthy.

 

[Anonymous]

Well, I didn't bid in the end, as my wife wasn't too happy about the credit card security and anyway I spotted a nice looking colony at a reputable online vendor which I ordered and should arrive on Thursday.

Kind of regretting not having gone for this now, as they went for very low prices. Might have to keep an eye on the vendor and see if they come up with any other frags at a later stage.

 

[Anonymous]

Well, I didn't bid in the end, as my wife wasn't too happy about the credit card security and anyway I spotted a nice looking colony at a reputable online vendor which I ordered and should arrive on Thursday.

Kind of regretting not having gone for this now, as they went for very low prices. Might have to keep an eye on the vendor and see if they come up with any other frags at a later stage.

here in the States, both Visa , and Mastercard have gift cards that can be purchased and money can be added to the card as needed - does Japan have anything of the sort?
With one of those cards, its not linked to any of your accounts, credit or bank, so that if you did get ripped from lack of security, it'd only be for the balance on that particular card, and your Wife wouldnt have to worry about your online purchases and possible online ID theft.

Quite a few of my friends use those rechargable gift cards for gaming(World of Warcraft) - that way, if their accounts get hacked, their credit doesnt get devastated by the hackers/thieves...

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks JP, that sounds like it would be worth looking into. I'm a bit unsure that Japan will be quite as forward thinking on credit/debit cards (the use of the former has only just become widespread in the last couple of years) and I know, for example, that prepaid cell phones never took off here because of worries about crime. But I'll do some digging.