Flatworm Exit and fish

[Len]

I'm now convinced that Flatworm Exit isn't entirely fish-safe. I administered FWE to my fish holding tank, and some fish are exhibiting the same frayed fins, heavy breathing, and loss of pigmentation that I previously observed when I did FWE the first time in my main tank (when I had lots of flatworms). Back then, I thought it was the dying flatworms and their released toxins that caused the bad reaction with my fish. However, this time, there was no observable flatworms in my holding tank, and still my fish had a similar reaction to the treatment. Their reaction doesn't seem to be as strong as last time; this could be due to there being no flatworms, but I think it's more likely because I moved the fish from the FWE-treated holding tank to my display tank (no FWE administered there).

So, in short, I'm hesitant to recommend FWE as a treatment for flatworms in a tank with fish. I will not subject my fish to that again. However, corals and inverts all appear fine.

 

[Ben1]

i have used it with no ill effects way over the dosing schedule but I guess YMMV...

 

[Anonymous]

I've killed a foxface with it before, not sure if it was the toxins released or the FWE, but the next day after administering it (and yeah I was running carbon pretty aggressively) he was a floater.

 

[Len]

Well, lost two anthias and my joculator angel yesterday. I don't get it: some people have no problems with FWE, but I've killed a lot of fish with it. I'm sticking to FW baths now.

 

[WRASSER]

sorry to hear, hope you van figure it out.

 

[Anonymous]

Well, lost two anthias and my joculator angel yesterday. I don't get it: some people have no problems with FWE, but I've killed a lot of fish with it. I'm sticking to FW baths now.

Oh no! Have you done any searching on WWM regarding this product? Seriously, I wouldn't be surprised if you find something pertinent to your situation there.

I'm sorry you lost those fish.

 

[Len]

Most of what I read is that it's safe (with most people citing what Salifert says about problems stemming from flatworms' toxins, not the medication itself). I know firsthand a lot of folks (like Ben) that have used it without problems. But after two tries, I'm convinced FWE itself is not fish-safe for all fish. The first time I treated my tank, I had a lot of flatworms and so I believed Salifert's statement. The second time, I had no observable flatworms in my holding tank and still lost my fish in the same way. While problem reports seem to be in the minority, there are plenty of such reports, so I'm just going to stay clear of this stuff from now on. It's definitely something I can't recommend to others.

 

[Anonymous]

An easy enough test, albeit not one that individuals could probably do probably better for a wholesaler or LFS to do, is simply dose it on tanks with absolutely no flatworms.

 

[Len]

An easy enough test, albeit not one that individuals could probably do probably better for a wholesaler or LFS to do, is simply dose it on tanks with absolutely no flatworms.

I'm pretty convinced my holding tank didn't have flatworms, or if I did, very little. I didn't use any of the old water or rock/substrate. The only water that got in there was the drippings when netting the fish in (so a couple flatworms might have hitchhiked). When I treated the tank, I didn't see any floating flatworms either ... definitely not like when I treated my display tank the first time. This is why this time around, I think FWE is the actual culprit and not the flatworms. Regardless if I had a lot of flatworms or little/none, my fish died in the same exact manner.

I think my black tang is going to make it. His fins aren't frayed, and he's eating like a pig. The only issue is he's still covered with protruding white spots (I presume ich), though it's gotten better since the first day. My two remaining anthias are iffy.

 

[Len]

You know, I want to suspect flukes since the symptoms (frayed fins, labored breathing, skin discoloration, loss of appetite) of these fish's death are similar to a fluke infestation. BUT I have to rule this out because the fish were fine for years and only reacted poorly after FWE treatment ... unless FWE suddenly causes flukes to attack fish.

 

[Ben1]

my joculator angel yesterday

very sad to hear, lovely fish.

Yeah I have had no issues but I also never had plague populations of FW's. I have used it a few times, and once I just dumped the whole little bottle in my tank which was way over the dosing schedule. Who knows though maybe has something to do with the tank just being reset up. I know this seems like a silly question but have you checked for ammonia? Maybe the tank is cycling a bit still.

 

[Len]

Ammonia is 0ppm, but nitrite is a there in low levels. There is a chance it could have been the tank. It's just odd that the symptoms were EXACTLY the same as last time.

 

[Len]

The tang and borb anthias are much better today. It's more evidence it's got nothing to do with the new tank.

 

[Len]

I'm happy to report the three fish that survived the treatment have pretty recovered, with still a little "burned" fins on the Bimac male. But all three are eating vigorously, the tang no longer has white spots on him, and the Borb is regrowing it's fins really fast. Something about FWE causes my fish to have fin rot, skin problems, and rapid respiration. I'm using it now only for coral dips (and those corals will be rinsed before adding it to the tank ... I'm that paranoid about FWE now ).

 

[Anonymous]

I haven't had any bad luck with the FWE. Except the flat worms coming back. (to combat this I started putting a couple of drops of FWE in the tank ever day for three weeks after I dosed. That seemed to work, until I didn't QT a frag...)

Try prazipro next time.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/p ... 2968000000

B

 

[Len]

I tried Prazipro in the display and it was totally safe. It made my tang poop like crazy for the first day, but now his bowel movements are much better then they were before... I think it cleared him of all the internal worm parasites. It also helped with the eye flukes, which seem gone now. I don't think I'd recommend others to use it in their display tank just yet, but it was definitely reef-safe for me.

As for FWE, having thought it over the past few weeks, I'm now not totally convinced it's the chemical itself that is a problem. I think it's what it kills off that presents a problem. I'm just not sure what it kills and how these die-offs interact with fish (maybe all my fish had some internal worm parasites that responded in toxic fashion to FWE). This could explain why some people have no problem with FWE, and some people report really bad fish deaths like me.

 

[Unarce]

I wonder if there's a QC issue or change in formula with Salifert. From my experiences, my fish went on as normal, even at tripe dosage and heavy infestation. Maybe the combination of another product and FWE is a bad mix :?:

 

[Len]

Yeah, it could be interaction with something too. I'm thinking the medication itself, in a sterile environment, is probably totally safe for fish. But it might interact with different chemicals or organisms, which would explain people having different experiences with FWE.

 

[Unarce]

What do the instructions say about skimmers? I know that each time I've used it, I left mine running without the collection cup.

 

[Len]

edit: It says to keep the skimmer on.