Am I crazy?

[Anonymous]

As many of you know, I've been doing some planning for my first tank in 4 years, when my wife and I move to Tokyo early next year. I'll be buying most of my equipment from the US for various reasons.

I have an excel spreadsheet at home, setting out some "cheaper but good" options for equipment. Currently for the LPS/softie/clam tank I was planning, I have identified the Octopus DNW-150 as a good option for a 75g tank (36"x24"x18"). But my thoughts turn to getting the absolute best skimmer I can afford and I find myself tempted by the idea of a rather more upmarket option.

So I find myself looking at the Rolls Royce option (the BK Mini 160) or the Aston Martin (Elos Natural 500). A considerable increase on the Octopus, but I'm wondering if it's worth it, based on the fact that I'd like a skimmer I can take from country to country and last a long time and can adapt to different types of tank (if I decide to go SPS when I move to my next country, could the skimmer not only cope, but do well?). Plus something that's well built and well engineered will last longer.

So, am I crazy and I need to stick to my budget, or is this the one thing it's worth spending more on?

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry that should read 65g...

Also, one the attractions of both of these was the small footprint.

 

[Anonymous]

Yes you are crazy! :wink:





I would get the best skimmer I could as well. I would get a BK mini or a BK cone. The Red Dragon pump will last and may be easy to get replacements and parts from Europe if needed.

 

[Anonymous]

Well if you had a money is no object mindset then sure go for it, although if you're trying to save bucks, I think the skimmer is EASILY some place you can, because while yes the BKmini is most likely better than the Octopus you mentioned, you can make your bucks stretch a lot further with a skimmer. Heck a local guy who deals with the high end skimmer market and is a reseller of such told me yeah the BK skimmers are good, but the price doesn't make them THAT much better. So looking at costs the BKMini is easily 3 times as much as your Octopus but it's in no way "3 times better", as I think a $900 Octopus skimmer can pull way more junk than a $900 BK Mini could (also could process a ton more water).

My advice, if you want better skimming go with a marginally larger skimmer, I personally like the Extreme models over the recirculating models (something about that Sicce pump they use). But if you want to go Rolls Royce, go with your pumps, I know you were on the fence over Koralia and Vortech Mp10s, I'd rather go with a couple MP10s over the Koralia than I would the BK over the Octopus.

You have to also think about how you're going to deal with the tank, softies/lps/clams are not that picky compared to a SPS tank, however if you do plan of feeding heavily (to either fish or inverts) I'd upgrade that skimmer a notch (not BK upgrade but still)

 

[Anonymous]

Ooooh. The Extreme looks like another good option and not too many $ more. Small footprint as well.

I'm still attracted to the sexiness (ahem, I mean longevity and reliability) of the Elos/BK options. It might just have to wait until I'm purchasing to see just how tight my budget is...

 

[Ben1]

I used the BK mini 200 on my 58 and loved it. They are so quiet you cant even hear them run. On my 160 its a stretch and I think I will end up upgrading to something larger. I like the extreme's too but the sicce pumps worry me. I used a bubblemaster for a short time that used a sicce pump and it was constantly stopping. The oct extreme mounts them better then the bubblemaster did though so maybe that solves the issue. The bubble king makes a milk white chamber, queitly, with low wattage. The cup on the bubbleking just sits ontop of the chamber and seals it self with its weight.

 

[Anonymous]

It's that sort of gold-plated performance that really appeals to me. Particularly the quietness and quality of build. If I had more money than I do, I'd even go for a Red Dragon return pump. I wonder what the other options are for quiet and reliable for a return pump? Do Quiet One pumps live up to their name?

 

[Anonymous]

I have a BM250 myself, 2 Sicce pumps, and like the BK the collection cup sits right on top. I've never had the pump outright stop unless the water level got too high, and this is a direct relation to the mesh wheel that's on it as it really isn't meant to move water, start up issues are rare as well maybe a slight chatter occasionally but in frequently. However if you go with the pinwheel impeller the start up issues are not a problem, but it doesn't pull as much air I think the largest issue with people and the BM skimmers is they just sit them too deep.

The quiet is something I would have to hear first hand as there's no way I'm blowing a grand plus on a skimmer that specifically will be gotten for it's quiet without actually hearing what quiet really is. My BM250 is far from quiet, I think most of it is the sound of air being sucked through though, I'm wondering if a pinwheel would quiet that down as well since that's what the red dragon pumps use I believe.

I like Quiet One pumps for returns, and they are fairly quiet as long as you have a flexible tube connected to it (hard pvc rattles regardless of the pump), and they are not resting directly on the glass. I love them because they move a good amount of water and are relatively low wattage compared to other pumps. HOWEVER, one thing that bugs the crap out of me with them is they definitely have re-start issues, and I've had multiple QO3Ks and a 4K, I still use them, because their price puts them much cheaper than an Eheim, and I believe they're more efficient and heat the water less, but that start up can be an issue.

 

[Anonymous]

I'd be looking at the BK Mini 160, which is about $880 at Premium Aquatics, would slot into the smallish footprint afforded by the Trigger systems sump I have my eye on (which would enable me to have a decent sized fuge after the skimmer). The Elos Natural 500 is "only" $603 and, although you get an Eheim instead of a Red Dragon, at least it's cheaper to replace if you ever need to...

Interesting about the Quiet One pumps. Sound attractive on that basis, as although I can contemplate spending $880 on a protein skimmer, I can't contemplate spending $400 on a return pump, unless I hit the jackpot this weekend. :wink:

 

[Raskal311]

A lot could change in 4 years so i'm not sure if you should bother looking at this stuff now.

 

[Anonymous]

A lot could change in 4 years so i'm not sure if you should bother looking at this stuff now.

Sorry, I wasn't clear in my original post. I've not had a tank for the past 4 years. This will likely get set up after about 6 months.

 

[Anonymous]

Well when I was speaking of spending a grand plus, I was specifically talking about *MY* system, which at 180g for the display would require a bit more than what the Mini160 could do, and for that cost I can get so much more skimmer that what BK offers. Although I am curious about someone who bought the self cleaning head, I really want to know what $1000 actually buys you for something that simply squirts water

I'm not particularly sold on Elos stuff as being "top of the line", yeah their tanks look pretty top notch, but really when I think protein skimmers that rock Elos doesn't even pop up in my head, I think the old veterans of BK, Deltec, H&S, ATB, amongst others. Bubble King makes tanks? No they do skimmers, H&S makes tanks? No they make skimmers, Deltec... well ok bad example there.. but the point being as I feel Elos simply wants its brand on everything, and they charge a premium, not saying the skimmer isn't good, its just I can see it as being THAT good.

 

[Anonymous]

I would go with the less expensive option. I am not convinced the difference in performance is enough (or makes enough of a difference) to justify the extra money.

 

[Ben1]

For the $1000, you also get a squeegee :lol: Seriously though if they were cheaper I'd like to see if they actually work well enough to prevent me from having to clean the cup so much.

 

[Anonymous]

Just like Rich said, yeah they're better than Octopus but are they really 4 times better? Hell you could get an Octopus Extreme 160, has nice small foot print, is by no means a slouch of a skimmer for the size tank and inhabitants you'll have AND 3 Vortech MP10s for the same cost of a single BK Mini 160

 

[Len]

It's not trendy to say, but I don't think skimmers make a big difference in performance. There was an eye-opening AAOLM article that starts the groundwork for skimmer testing: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/1/aafeature2

It found "bubbles are bubbles." The test recognizes it's not totally conclusive, but by comparing very different methods of bubble formation (downdraft, needle wheel, beckett, and air-driven), the removal constant was indistinguishable.

A nice skimmer should have features that make it attractive, such as low energy consumption, low noise, easy servicing, etc. But IMO, a decently designed skimmer is not going to perform much worse (if any) than a mega buck skimmer.

And this is from a man who owns a 4 figure Deltec

But as I said, this is not the trendy, popular sentiment. Spend big on skimmers 8)

 

[Anonymous]

You see? This is why I came here for a sanity check. :lol:

Good input on the Elos skimmers Mike. I've yet to see any real feedback on them, which is odd, as Elos get a lot of attention for their all-in-one set ups. But I think the people that tend to buy Elos are attracted to that sleek, designer appearance and might either not care about performance as much, or allow their concern about performance to get assuaged by the thought that "well if it looks that good and costs that much, it must work well!". I know all this because I'm one of them.

Actually, if I do end up buying the BK Mini 160, I'll confess here and now that it will be at least half due to a sheer blokey attraction to expensive gadgets, as much as it is the attraction to something that performs well, is durable, efficient and has a small footprint.

But the Octopus Extreme 160 does look like the sensible choice and I like the option of buying that and having 3 MP10s. But who says I will end up making the sensible decision! :lol:

I can hope, of course, that between now and buying the skimmer, they will come out with a new model that will be heavily discounted when it first appears. :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

MP10 on a 75? I would go with MP 20 or 40's- flow is more important than water.

 

[Anonymous]

While I agree flow is more important I think MP10s are a better value. At about $200 a pop and 1500GPH each (with all the fancy modes) they really seem to be a better buy than MP20s at $300 a pop at 2000GPH each, while the MP40 is probably a tie as far as water movement at just over $400 and 3000GPH. The upside of the smaller MP10 if you're stuck at a specific pump allowance (in this case the $600 saved from not getting the BK skimmer and going with a more sensible purchase) is that you can have 3 MP10s or 2 MP20s. Which on a small tank probably would do better depending upon how they're situated, If you put them on the back wall I think the larger pumps almost are wasted on a tank that thin, where as more pumps allow your flow to be more diffuse and spread out. The only downside is wireless connectivity but that's only an issue if the MP40s were your choice, and of course you're restricted to half the thickness of the glass acrylic @ 3/8" with the MP10s. The upside they have an even small in tank profile

But then again everyone has different ways to do things, and if it's a choice between 3 MP10s or 3 MP20s then that's a whole other ball game.

 

[Anonymous]

MP10 on a 75? I would go with MP 20 or 40's- flow is more important than water.

Which is why I want to go for the MP10s.

Seriously, this is not going to be an SPS tank primarily, but rather LPS, zoas, rics, maybe a clam or two and just possibly an SPS or two if I succumb. A lot of sources say that LPS do better in low-medium flow, rather than high flow and I don't want to go for the default option for reefkeepers nowadays (the MP40, bigger flow is better school) if that's not actually what would be ideal for the tank.

Besides, as Mike points out, the MP10s are not too shabby. They move a fair amount of water and have the same broad, soft flow that other prop powerheads provide, without blasting my LPS into full polyp retraction.