yeahcheetah
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- Long Island
It looks like the build and structure of a skimmer is really simple. So, why even a low-end Remora can cost a PSP?
Is skimmer high-tech?
- Thread starter yeahcheetah
- Start date
You should try to built one, or a few and you'll know why they are priced the way they are. There are a few brands that is over priced for what you get, but the hype they get on-line gets them the $$ (BK, BM, Deltec are three I think are over priced).
- Location
- Washington Heights, NY
Got to agree, try to build a euroreef. Then build 5 more. Break one and see what happens to your costs. Big difference when your building a diy for yourself versus production for a whole bunch of people you don't know.
Electricity, man-hours, machine life, rent to make something for someone you don't know all adds up. There's a reason why BK can charge what they charge. Machining wise there is nothing close to what they produce. While the build quality of the barr was excellent, you could tell it wasn't made in an actually machine shop.
But there are a lot of skimmers overpriced and to add to it, distributors get a cut also.
Electricity, man-hours, machine life, rent to make something for someone you don't know all adds up. There's a reason why BK can charge what they charge. Machining wise there is nothing close to what they produce. While the build quality of the barr was excellent, you could tell it wasn't made in an actually machine shop.
But there are a lot of skimmers overpriced and to add to it, distributors get a cut also.
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- Location
- NY
8" cast acrylic tubes can run $45-$75/foot retail. This doesn't include anything but the skimmer body. Most places sell it as 1' then the next available size is 3'. So there is paid for waste too.
Add to that, venturi's or becketts. Gate valves, and the precision to route the acrylic bottom & top plates adds cost. Yada, yada yada. They're not really the profit margin cash cow you think they might be.
swimmer
Add to that, venturi's or becketts. Gate valves, and the precision to route the acrylic bottom & top plates adds cost. Yada, yada yada. They're not really the profit margin cash cow you think they might be.
swimmer
- Location
- Washington Heights, NY
But even BK doesn't come close to the quality that envision acrylics puts out in their tanks. The skills in machining and fabricating to make a skimmer versus what James at envision does (from the pics I've seen) doesn't even come close. If he ever started making skimmers the whole skimming industry would change. Then again, most hobbyist are pretty naive when they first come into the hobby so it probably wouldn't matter.
- Location
- Washington Heights, NY
To add to what Russ said (sorry for the little rant but i've been thinking about this a lot lately) the stuff the BK's are made out of is not entirely acrylic. Its funny because Klaus from BK and I were talking on zeovit.com via pm over the last few weeks. Basically bs'ing about another skimmer. I finally decided to ask him exactly what material he uses for the bk's and haven't heard back from him yet :lol2:. I didn't expect him to tell me but I figured I would try. The point is, that if its the material I'm thinking, it cost about 2.5x the amount of acrylic and it doesn't cut or glue like acrylic. Plastics are a whole different ballgame you have to cut them like wood (but use more expensive cutters) but they hold an edge like aluminum. I honestly think most companies use colored acrylic because their glue joints suck. Skimmers aren't high pressure so it doesn't really matter.
- Location
- NY
Ok Paul........take.......a........deep........breath!!!!! :lol2:
R
R
nyfireman3097
Senior Member
- Location
- Staten Island New York
Hey Paul I have both the KZ and the BK for you to check out when you want to swing by
- Location
- Washington Heights, NY
Russ,
lol.
Nick,
I really want to but can't do it soon but I will come over. I'm sure when Chris comes over he can give good feedback, I actually want to hear his opinion after he fixes thats crack.
Shaun,
There's best made and best performing but those two don't always go together
. And then there's the questions of how much skimming does a tank really need. You don't need a well made skimmer to have a nice tank. People like Pierce, Warren, Kasei are always buying and going thru skimmers so they definitely have good perspectives. I went to Pierce's place last year and got to see a bk, deltec, barr in one room. A month later he had a h&s and das there also. I could name off what I think are nice skimmers but its really just another person opinion and would prefer not to on this thread. I'll send you a pm in the next few days but the things I look at are ease of use (design), injector method (design), material quality and the overall build. I will tell you if I was making a skimmer I would have reservations building any recirculating type, whether beckett, needlewheel or meshwheel. Eventhough no one talks about this it seems to me that single pass skimmers always do better. Could be they are not subjecting water/bubbles that all ready have stuff attached to them to extra forces.
lol.
Nick,
I really want to but can't do it soon but I will come over. I'm sure when Chris comes over he can give good feedback, I actually want to hear his opinion after he fixes thats crack.
Shaun,
There's best made and best performing but those two don't always go together
. And then there's the questions of how much skimming does a tank really need. You don't need a well made skimmer to have a nice tank. People like Pierce, Warren, Kasei are always buying and going thru skimmers so they definitely have good perspectives. I went to Pierce's place last year and got to see a bk, deltec, barr in one room. A month later he had a h&s and das there also. I could name off what I think are nice skimmers but its really just another person opinion and would prefer not to on this thread. I'll send you a pm in the next few days but the things I look at are ease of use (design), injector method (design), material quality and the overall build. I will tell you if I was making a skimmer I would have reservations building any recirculating type, whether beckett, needlewheel or meshwheel. Eventhough no one talks about this it seems to me that single pass skimmers always do better. Could be they are not subjecting water/bubbles that all ready have stuff attached to them to extra forces.
- Location
- Marine Park
I don't know if I'd say those brands are overpriced. Yes to build one yourself is pretty cheap but you don't have to R&D one.
nyfireman3097
Senior Member
- Location
- Staten Island New York
I agree fritz people are very quick to bash a PRODUCT due to price. I do agree some pprices are huge but there are reasons for those prices.
Paul Chris who ???
Paul Chris who ???
- Location
- Flushing NY 11355
The material cost is quite inexpensive compared to labor.
After I started to run my acrylics tank business, I found the most cost are actually labor.
The super high priced skimmers are not selling like hot cakes nor do they own a plactic injector, therefore a lot of those skimmer are somewhat you can say hand made. You hand make anything is expensive. Most of the injection molded parts are made by other bigger plastic injection company and would charge them an arm or a leg for the small quantity they are buying.
Skimmers are not high pressure pumping equipment and having the cylinder thermal casted by plastic companies is not that expensive compare to their selling price. The cost of an injection mold for something 1' x 2' is not that expensive, once again comparing to their selling price. It's not like casting a 5' OD circular tank. Therefore, I think 90 percent of them are over priced because they choose not to mass produce them. If they custom made every single skimmer then I would say it worth the price, otherwise overpriced.
Oh almost forogt to mention if their design(R&D effort) are good enough to be patented then of course they worth the high price.
After I started to run my acrylics tank business, I found the most cost are actually labor.
The super high priced skimmers are not selling like hot cakes nor do they own a plactic injector, therefore a lot of those skimmer are somewhat you can say hand made. You hand make anything is expensive. Most of the injection molded parts are made by other bigger plastic injection company and would charge them an arm or a leg for the small quantity they are buying.
Skimmers are not high pressure pumping equipment and having the cylinder thermal casted by plastic companies is not that expensive compare to their selling price. The cost of an injection mold for something 1' x 2' is not that expensive, once again comparing to their selling price. It's not like casting a 5' OD circular tank. Therefore, I think 90 percent of them are over priced because they choose not to mass produce them. If they custom made every single skimmer then I would say it worth the price, otherwise overpriced.
Oh almost forogt to mention if their design(R&D effort) are good enough to be patented then of course they worth the high price.
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