Question Corals not growing/dieing What to do?

[Rob_Reef_Keeper]

The Zoas that are left are there and not spreading. I have lost at least 6 other colonies that just shrunk and faded away.

The blue Zoas fell off the rock structure and need to be moved.

The frogspawns/hammers/torches all faded away and died. Even a toadstool shrunk and faded away. I had other mushrooms that all did the same. Lost acan frags, trumpet corals as well.

The Kenya tree is a piece from a colony I got rid of and a piece floated and attached to the glass. I will get rid of that as well.

Last time I tested po4 was .05 and nitrate. Was 19.

It’s been over 2 months since adding a coral. Was holding off until I saw positive growth on what was remaining. Now with the Ulva on all the rock I probably shouldn’t add anything again.

I had added a ball of chaeto a month ago that is gone now. I was running the Kessil flora light over it for 8 hours a day starting in the evening before the main tank lights went off.

So can’t grow chaeto, Zoas, mushrooms, LPs, and forget sps.

Sorry for the blue pics. iPhone stinks at tank pics.

 

[Rob_Reef_Keeper]

Pic

 

[Geraud]

It is very hard to see with just the blue lights on, can you change it to a more natural color so that the phone sensor does not get to saturation levels? Or use an orange filter in front of the lens. If not available, try and use the phone app in "pro mode" and change the white balance / hue

 

[Rob_Reef_Keeper]

Tired to make the lights white for the pics

 

[Rob_Reef_Keeper]

Update.

Devils hand, green sinularia, some Zoas have grown and some have not. Tried a green slimmer frag - lasted a few weeks.

Mushrooms still don’t spread, frogspawn or hammers just wilt away.


Water parameters
Alk 8.5
Cal 400
Msg 1200
Amon 0
Nitrate 20
PO4 0.03
Temp 77-78
ph 8-8.1
Sal 1.024
Orp 400-420

Use Red Sea Salt

Fish: red hawk, and a talmini tang, mellenarus wrasse, red cardinal, Various snails, pincushion urchin, (Had clowns but they jumped out)

I have not added much to the tank in months, water changes every 2 months to see if that helped - no difference. Had the PAR meter and tested and removed the glass tops and cranked up the Radions XR15 Blues to 90% - no difference. Besides of the tank being just blue and no brightness. Had the ICP water test. All fine.

So back to decisions.

1. Convert to a FOWLR and get colorful active fish. Would need a IB sterilizer and new lights ( Radion Blues ate too blue and tank is dark)

2. Keep a reef
2a. Rebuild the whole tank, new LR. Water, lights
2b. Replace the lights from Radions to maybe the Reefbreeders Meridian or Kessil Apex’s
2c. Hire a company to rebuild and maintain this as I don’t know what else to try.

3. Put the whole thing on the curb

4. Other?

 

[Rob_Reef_Keeper]

Some pics. The white is temporary as I turned off all the blue leds for the pic

 

[Harif87]

Looks like you have a lot of growth in your softies from the last pics you sent! Looks like your zoas took off and toadstool got huge.

Your blasto looks pretty good too.

Slimers are generally more difficult to keep....they need a pretty good amount of light and are not gonna last with 20ppm of nitrates. Also keep in mind that they dont do well with change - so if you do frequent water changes or infrequent dosing, they will have a hard time.

If you're running radions, you most probably shouldnt consider changing. How many radions are you running and what are your tank dimensions?

Also, I notice your mushrooms are high up (at least from the pic they look like closed up shrooms). They could be not opening because they're getting too much light. Generally, they should be placed pretty close to the sandbed or under a slightly shaded area if you're running radions.

Also as a side note I notice the aquascape is leading to alot of shaded areas...even areas that look like theyre getting light are probably getting less PAR. Note - I dont think this is a major issue with where your corals are placed now, but just something to know for the future.

Also, I would suggest keeping salinity at 1.026.
1.024 is pretty low.

 

[akma]

Water parameters
Alk 8.5
Cal 400
Msg 1200
Amon 0
Nitrate 20
PO4 0.03
Temp 77-78
ph 8-8.1
Sal 1.024
Orp 400-420

Looks good. I personally would raise mag and salinity to 35ppt.
90% for the lights are pretty strong for softies.

Do you have par readings?

 

[Rob_Reef_Keeper]

PAR readings are earlier in this thread. Showing with glass and without glass. The glass tops I removed some time ago really restricted PAR. The glass is now removed. I have 2 Radion XR15 Blues (IMO not great for asthetics as it’s too blue).


The few mushrooms are all on the bottom left near the leather. Other ones I had all died off.

Any frogspawn, hammers, torches don’t last. The coral that is higher is a blast that is fading away. The rock in the middle has other Zoas that are gone or barely open. Ricordeas last a few weeks and shrink and die.

Would like some more color, vertical corals besides leathers but since Only softies are living I am limited.

I tried some other SPS like birdnests, monipora that all died.

 

[Harif87]

Any chance you can get closer pics of the corals?

Are these guys shrooms?
Cant tell from the pics.

Also 20 ppm nitrates are high, even for LPS like torches (wheras softies would do fine with 20ppm). We're the torches getting flow? Where was the placement?

 

[Rob_Reef_Keeper]

The tor he’s were lid level and had flow. The 2 corals outlined are a blasto and a similar coral ( can’t remember at the moment). I will re measure all again tomorrow. There was a time when nitrates were about zero and did not. Change anything

 

[Rob_Reef_Keeper]

Retested the tank
PO4 0.14. (Need to lower)
Nitrate 0 ( tested with Hanna and Salifert)
Alk 6.9 (low)
Ca 430
Mag 1230
Sal 1.024

 

[Rob_Reef_Keeper]

Pics of some corals that don’t change/grow.

 

[evoIX_Reefer]

I would worry about parameters being stable. Scanning through, it looks like they move pretty drastically. You want to pick a number that is within acceptable range and work on stabilizing it.

Your alk low is a huge problem for corals and alk swings are a big factor to me in corals doing well or going to run into issues.

I dont care if you do parameter checks by hanna, mastertronics, apex trident, etc. Use what is best for you and constantly try to improve the stability of main parameters.

Next comes PAR butI havent seen info that states bleaching, browning out, etc. If they arent growing its a parameter issue first if like you said you have top notch equipment.

Zeroing out parameters is a big no-no after years of everyone saying that was our goal. Like things in this hobby, we evolved and much smarter and better.

Too high is a problem inviting nuisance algae, too little and starvation and opening the door for other types of nuisance algae when not in line with PO4.

look at successful reefers recommended nutrients based on what they house in their tanks and emulate it.

P 0.14 isnt too bad just up very slightly your PO4 absorbtion media or whatever method you are using and again find the stability on feeding the tank high po4 content.
Reef roids is HIGH PO4
I only feed the tank reef roids 1-2x a week and change my rowaphos a day or two later then on the second feeding I prep my water change for the following day.

A lot of information but I hope you stick with it. Once the tank is in cruise control and you find your grove with the parameters, you'll be glad you stuck with it.

 

[Rob_Reef_Keeper]

Still don’t understand what is fueling the algae if the nitrates are zero and po4 is not that bad.

I guess possibly allot more scrubbing and water changes to get it out. Taking the rock out to scrub?

For the aiptasia I guess I can try the aiptasia-x for the ones I can reach. Or pull the rock to scrub and hopefully remove them. I would think that can me more disruptive making the tank stability worse?

Bubble algae is coming back as well. I had added a few emerald crabs a while back but they are no where to be seen.

So now the tank has hair algae all over, bubble algae, aiptasia, corals don’t last.

Was planning to buy another MP40 but not sure it’s worth wasting another $500 for a failed tank.

I have not added reef roids or any coral food additives in months. Just the frozen fish food.

Tried using b-ionic and just the alk to raise but no luck. Can’t find a way to drip kalk. Would look for a kalk reactor if that would handle the alk/ca needs.

So for stability. Do I leave the tank alone and keep trying to raise Alk? Many daily water changes?

Or just put their whole setup on the curb?

 

[akma]

Still don’t understand what is fueling the algae if the nitrates are zero and po4 is not that bad.

I guess possibly allot more scrubbing and water changes to get it out. Taking the rock out to scrub?

For the aiptasia I guess I can try the aiptasia-x for the ones I can reach. Or pull the rock to scrub and hopefully remove them. I would think that can me more disruptive making the tank stability worse?

Bubble algae is coming back as well. I had added a few emerald crabs a while back but they are no where to be seen.

So now the tank has hair algae all over, bubble algae, aiptasia, corals don’t last.

Was planning to buy another MP40 but not sure it’s worth wasting another $500 for a failed tank.

I have not added reef roids or any coral food additives in months. Just the frozen fish food.

Tried using b-ionic and just the alk to raise but no luck. Can’t find a way to drip kalk. Would look for a kalk reactor if that would handle the alk/ca needs.

So for stability. Do I leave the tank alone and keep trying to raise Alk? Many daily water changes?

Or just put their whole setup on the curb?

Your algae is sucking up the phosphates preventing you from getting a complete reading.

I've realized it's almost impossible to keeps pests out if you trade and buy corals. I use allot of trochus snails, astrea, nassarius, and turbo snails to help keep algae down. If you can get the hair algae short enough the astrea should take care of it quickly.
My tank is also ok for tangs so they help to keep algae down as well. But every water change I still manually remove any algae I see.

"Tried using b-ionic and just the alk to raise but no luck. Can’t find a way to drip kalk. Would look for a kalk reactor if that would handle the alk/ca needs."

Are you testing to see how much alk your system consumes? I test alk everyday, but in the beginning you want to take an initial reading and then take another reading 3 days later. Then divide by 3 will you give you the average consumption.
I have a sps mixed reef and I consumer about 25ml of alk / calc in a roughly 1 year old system.

Alkalinity is one of most important parameters that should be kept steady. I used to manually dose by hand but even that threw my parameters slightly off. Now I have my alk dialed in almost perfect at 7.8alk.

 

[Rob_Reef_Keeper]

How are you maintaining Alk?

I tested 3 times last week. 7.9 after a water change. Then a few days later it was 7 then a few days later 6.9. This is where the tank normally sits at 6.9.

I saw a post on downing baking soda to raise it. I could try that and add somehow slowly. Maybe a dosing pump like an Apex DOS? Not sure how to use that to keep the talk stable though?

For the algae since it’s covering everything it’s almost impossible to scrub and siphon and not making a landslide. Maybe just better off pulling it all to scrub? Get rid of all the corals and fish that are left and let the tank sit with nothing in it but rock for 6 months or so?

There are over 50 snails and plus hermit crabs, emeralds ( have not seen them). The snails are always on the glass and never on the rocks. I pull the snails and put back on the rocks and repeat every few days.

 

[akma]

How are you maintaining Alk?

I tested 3 times last week. 7.9 after a water change. Then a few days later it was 7 then a few days later 6.9. This is where the tank normally sits at 6.9.

I saw a post on downing baking soda to raise it. I could try that and add somehow slowly. Maybe a dosing pump like an Apex DOS? Not sure how to use that to keep the talk stable though?

For the algae since it’s covering everything it’s almost impossible to scrub and siphon and not making a landslide. Maybe just better off pulling it all to scrub? Get rid of all the corals and fish that are left and let the tank sit with nothing in it but rock for 6 months or so?

There are over 50 snails and plus hermit crabs, emeralds ( have not seen them). The snails are always on the glass and never on the rocks. I pull the snails and put back on the rocks and repeat every few days.

I use an apex dos to dose calcium and alkalinity.
I use esv bionic. You can use brs or any other product.
To figure out how much you have to dose you have to use a calculator.
https://reef.diesyst.com/chemcalc/chemcalc.html This is the one I use.

How many gallon water changes are you doing? That seems to be a big jump from 6.9-7.9 just from one water change.

Your rock is probably leeching phosphates. Just letting it sit with nothing won't take the phosphates out. Need to run GFO.

I'd probably do massive water changes, syphoning out as much algae and junk you can. Run GFO and skim heavy.

 

[Rob_Reef_Keeper]

Do you think this is a year long process to see results? I just want to set my expectations. I know it won’t be fixed in a month.

I do have a phosban reactor what I will run Rowaphos through.

To scrub the rock probably means taking it out piece by piece as it’s all over the rock. Trying it in tank will just be a landslide mess.

To get whatever excess nutrients out I should probably limit feeding. For the 7 fish left. 1 frozen cube of mysis a day enough?

Or To reset the tank should I remove whatever coral and fish are in the tank and let it sit with nothing lights for a few months?

 

[Rob_Reef_Keeper]

I still do not know how these levels got bad to begin with. I do. It think I am over feeding the tank with 2 cubes of frozen mysis every other day. At one point I was adding some small pellets every few days that the fish devoured instantly.

I run the skimmer. Use RO/DI. Red Sea blue bucket salt.


The reef roids were a one time thing months ago.