Is Reefing Directed More toward Men?

[House of Laughter]

I can verify first hand that women in the sciences and engineering has steadily declined over the past 10 years - even worse, Caucasian women has decreased to single digits in some programs and Asian women have been leading the forces in the engineering sciences. How do I KNOW this? a ten year study of women exiting high school and choosing the engineering sciences as a major in college - from stats drawn from DC and the Bureau of Education Statistics when I was a dean for a School of Computer Science and Information Systems looking for ways to leverage women into technology programs - the Bureau bunches them all together in one, so keep that in mind all you statisticians. Thats why you see so many scholarships etc for women in these fields -

How that translates to reefing I think Phyl hit close to the proverbial head. The trades are not typically "handed down" to the daughters through generations, so, this is tough to come by sometimes. Stereotypical, yes - right, definately not even close - true - absolutely (and unfortunate).

The "Too Busy" argument - hogwash! (IMO) you make time for what you want.

Again, JMO

House

 

[ellebelle]

That's an interesting point, as I think it seems to be true that if a woman is interested in reef keeping, it is easier to get her spouse/partner involved than if a man is interested in reef keeping.

It's interesting the women are in the decline in engineering, because my sense in that they are increasing in the biological sciences. In my Ph.D. program in particular, about 75% of the students are female. Sadly, more tenure track jobs still go to men in my field. Not that I'm bitter.

 

[sweetsop]

Sweetsop here, & I'm a gal, I've had my s.w. coral reef tank for a few months now, and I love it! Yes, at first, it was very scary, I was unsure of how things worked, but thank goodness for the internet, MR and fellow friends in the hobby who have "de-spooked" it for me! I find it challenging and rewarding, I love the fact that it's like gardening underwater!

Whether it's a guys or gals "thing", well it doesn't have to be either one, you just need to be dedicated to it, as in any hobby or interest.:flower:

 

[prattreef]

Interesting too, that here at Pratt, many of my assistants and those that express interest in helping out are women. The majors here are hands on and all students tend to be familiar with building stuff, working with tools and getting messy.

 

[KathyC]

I don't think it is geared more toward men, though obviously there are far more men involved than women and it is the same in the FW arm of the hobby.
If women are more of the 'nurturers' than men, it stand to reason that many more women would be involved, yet they aren't. It can't only be due to the plumbing/equipment aspect since FW only involves a heater, air pump & slap on a filter mentality, very simple, yet women don't join there either.
The equipment in SW can be intimidating..look to the forums..the men are as confused as the women when it comes to lighting, skimmers & plumbing. Do they start off in life with more knlowledge in these things..no but it is more socially acceptable for men to dabble in it. What is stopping the women? Perhaps some still feel intimidated to ask/learn about the plumbing & electrical aspects. Damned shame.

Josh, on your point about women having a harder time dealing with the loss of a pet, I vehemently disagree. Men feel the loss just as much as women, but are taught that showing emotion isn't socially acceptable. Macho- smacho..men hurt too. I think women have a more realistic view of the losses and ask ourselves if we did everything we could for the living item..cognizant of the expected lifespan, be it a fish, a coral or a flower, if the answer is yes, we deal with it far better than males. We may grieve more visably ...but then we move forward.
Or quit - same as the guys....

How did I get here..I 'inherited' 2 FW fish. When I get involved in something, I want to know as much as possible about it..so I learned. My FW friends (all males) suggested I get involved in SW due to my success with FW..more of a challenge they said. Got that right!
I'm still learning. So are they.

 

[ellebelle]

Ask Leslie how she nurtures her green palys. :biglaugh:

 

[KathyC]

Ask Leslie how she nurtures her green palys. :biglaugh:

LMAO....good one Lissa!

 

[tosiek]

Someone has to genetically morph diamonds/gold and coral..... or shoes and coral...... and our problem is solved. :bigeyes:

:fishhit:

I asked my GF once why she doesn't like the tanks that much, and she said its b/c i am keeping animals in a teensy cube, which compared to the ocean is like a prison cell. Followed by "Do you realize the amount of nice clothes and shoes and stuff i could buy with the money you put into your tank?"

Anyways, everything else has been said. I think its more of a "I have XXX horsepower under my hood, what about you?" guy mentality of things.

Also i can imagine that the mostly male force thats currently driving this hobby is intimidating to some degree. You all seen how everyone gawked and offered help when that laurenbabe girl first came on the boards. :type:

 

[LeslieS]

Also i can imagine that the mostly male force thats currently driving this hobby is intimidating to some degree. You all seen how everyone gawked and offered help when that laurenbabe girl first came on the boards. :type:

This is true. A very small part of why I did not go to MACNA was that there were no women going other than Liz who was with Craig.

That being said, I have always been treated like just another person on the board. I definitely think that you get back what you put out. Yes, women should be able to wear short skirts, blah, blah, blah, but there is a time and a place for everything. If you post a picture of your self less than dressed with a link to even more pictures of yourself less than dressed, people are going to doubt your reasons for being here. Lauren definitely got everyone's attention, but I'm not sure it was always the type of attention she wanted.

 

[prattreef]

To bring this a little more on track, I find it very interesting that while the SW hobby is so clearly male dominated, and the FW hobby is similar, but less so IMO, if you go to Seahorse.org the gender balance completely shifts. There the hobby appears to be woman dominated or at least 50-50 which seems to cut against the grain of our thinking here--- Seahorses are exceedingly difficult to maintain, require huge investments in time and money, suffer regular losses, and entail the basic technological innovations we use on the SW side ( though admittedly less than full blown reef keepers).

Can this really come down to a comfort level with plumbing and wires???? If so, let's start a campaign for sumpless reef systems. That should fix the problem- no?

 

[ellebelle]

I think that seahorses up the "cute factor". Sure, anyone who has seen jhale's photos of Jose the Mandarin will say that fish are cute, but more than one of my female friends thinks that fish are unappealing. Seahorses are a little different in that they up both the "cool" and the "cute" factor. Also, seahorses need to be fed constantly, so a stay-at-home mom/wife could more easily meet the steep care requirements.

 

[Chiefmcfuz]

Male or female most admit the end result of having a great tank is appealing to everyone.

 

[nycmat]

this is a hobby, personally i feel that it is geared for anyone. not biased towards any one particular sex. or hey for whichever way you wish to break it down. i believe that there are women out there that love the tanks. i personally can verify that by all the women who have come into my home. they are mesmerized by it. not to say that they are not into the hobby. the women that i know are more into the fish hobby then anything. i think leslie i should ask why do you feel that way in regards to this hobby? i hope its not because of a couple of guys in a hardware store. there are other people here who are women that enjoy the hobby. i have quite a few.
to prattreef. could you break down your stats in regards to the seahorses?? because that would be an interesting study considering the fact that the seashorse is the only male species on earth (that i know) that is reproductive. LOL. imagine?

 

[Wes]

for me the engineer in me comes out and all of the design and equipment setup is what drives me...For example, i just redesigned my entire system a few months ago, now i am already planning out my next setup in my head.

For some reason Males seem to be more drawn to Engineering than women. And I apologize to the feminists but i don't think it has much to do w/ upbringing and 50's ideals anymore. For example, people my age had the hippy parents and our mother's burned their bras. Women my age where told by their parents that they can be "Anything the want to be if they put their mind to it" their entire lives. Yet my graduating class in the college of engineering was over 90% male. I don't know why but it happens.

The hobby seems to be moving towards these "All-In-One" SW setups that are pretty plug and play. As these become more widespread, maybe it will result in more women in the hobby?

 

[prattreef]

Matt,

I have no stats, but it is very obvious that there is huge percentage increase in the # of women keeping seahorses as opposed to other marine systems.

Lissa,

Clearly, women love seahorses, for whatever reason, but then how does that square with the 90+ % male dominance in the SW hobby? Women aren't attracted enough to other SW options to bother?

 

[prattreef]

Wes,
You are right about the engineering phenomenon, but if that is the issue, then it is a marketing problem and a problem of how we choose to talk about keeping our systems. There is no reason our tanks need to be viewed as Engineering based enterprises. I certainly don't view it that way ( I know many do and that is fine) but if approached as a biological system much as a garden would be --- and there is a far higher percentage of avid women gardeners and as Lissa pointed out, huge numbers of women with formal biological training then the appeal should be much broader.

This fact of our hobby has always confounded me and I haven't been able to come up with a satisfactory explanation perhaps because it is a complex of interacting factors.
I do agree the plug and play factor might have an impact.

 

[ellebelle]

I will say that the plug and play option was extremely attractive to me. I really wanted to get one of the 24 gallon aquapods. Then I was just going to get a hang on back skimmer and run a really simple set up.

It was my boyfriend who convinced me to get everything separately, build a stand, plumb a sump and get a big skimmer. I am really happy I did it this way in the end, but had been setting it up myself, I would have ended up with a much simpler set up.

 

[Chiefmcfuz]

The all in one aspect appeals to alot of people especially beginners and people without alot of tech know how (me).

 

[digitalreefer]

Men are gearheads... it's the same with this hobby as it is with many others. Most guys can rattle off the specs of their skimmers, cars, boats, planes, etc... it's a guy thing. Most women I know are happy if it skims, drives, floats, flies, etc...

It's one more hobby for us guys to memorize a bunch of specs and get excited about new gear.

 

[ShaunW]

In the biological sciences women are as much a force as the men. I am surrounded by intelligent, career dominated women at Cornell U at all levels (grad. students, post-docs, and faculty).

Maybe another question should be: How many women reefers chose to post on websites about their fish tanks?

I think many women set up a fish tank and enjoy it, posting less than men on websites (seahorse websites being the exception). Even the women here on MR, post much less then the men in general.