confused about lighting

[clownlover]

#1- at 24" deep i dont think MY solaris will be the right choice for sps, but the new models are almost double my power so i have no doubt they would work well. another thing to remember is that ur NOT placing ALL your corals at the bobttom of your tank. at least 75% will be 20 inches or shallower and the h or i series will rock in that range.

#2- it doesnt take that long to recoup ur initial money in electricity savings. their site has a calculator that tells u how long it will take http://www.solarisled.com/FAQTechnical/SolarisCostSavings/tabid/65/Default.aspx
i think i did it and it worked out to three years or so. not the longest period of time but not the shortest either. these bulbs last for 10 years (at 14 hours per day, or 50,000 hours). for me, the less work i have to do the better, i dont want to change bulbs twice a year.

#3 - metal halide data can be found here http://www.solarisled.com/FAQTechnical/FAQ/tabid/54/Default.aspx 5th question down.
The white LEDs used in the I4 series is above 80 lumens/watt, th ehighest MH they tested was 77 L/watt. i have no doubts that these leds can match or even outperform MH. As stated by wingo PAR readings were taken from every tank and the solaris scored the highest. someone said it best earlier u can pay now and save later or save now and pay later

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

I guess the question I always have is how is the light from a 150 watt source going to be brighter or as bright as a 400 watt source.

Because brighter is a relative word to us(human beings) and so are corals. Our eyes respond to different wavelengths of the light while corals react to different wavelengths of light. Each wavelength need energy to power up, so a light that give out 2 zillion wavelengths, but if not a single wavelength is useful to the coral, the coral die. A real life test example happened in Dr Random's refugium, the original light shorted so in the rush I replace a yellow led of 9W on it, the macro die in two weeks. Then I replace it with <4.6W Blue and Red grow light configuration, the aglae is regrown to full strength and all my elkhorn SPS and green polyps and star polyps are opening well. This indicate the mono wavelength of yellow is not used by the macro algae! MH generates a lot of wavelengths other than just the wavelengths that the coral need, so if properly targeted, a less power consuming light source can be more efficient than the more power consuming one.

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

#1- at 24" deep i dont think MY solaris will be the right choice for sps, but the new models are almost double my power so i have no doubt they would work well. another thing to remember is that ur NOT placing ALL your corals at the bobttom of your tank. at least 75% will be 20 inches or shallower and the h or i series will rock in that range.

#2- it doesnt take that long to recoup ur initial money in electricity savings. their site has a calculator that tells u how long it will take http://www.solarisled.com/FAQTechnical/SolarisCostSavings/tabid/65/Default.aspx
i think i did it and it worked out to three years or so. not the longest period of time but not the shortest either. these bulbs last for 10 years (at 14 hours per day, or 50,000 hours). for me, the less work i have to do the better, i dont want to change bulbs twice a year.

#3 - metal halide data can be found here http://www.solarisled.com/FAQTechnical/FAQ/tabid/54/Default.aspx 5th question down.
The white LEDs used in the I4 series is above 80 lumens/watt. i have no doubts that these leds can match or even outperform MH. As stated by wingo PAR readings were taken from every tank and the solaris scored the highest (have to wait til Jake post some data to confirm). someone said it best earlier u can pay now and save later or save now and pay later

Per watt-wise, I guess mine, not even Solaris, will score the highest in the PAR:tongue1:

All my commercial products are now equipped with the 80,000 hours ones and prototyping the 100,000 hours ones. :tongue1::tongue1::tongue1:

 

[JBNY]

and I think the real deterring factor of the LEDs are the initial cost, not its potentials. If you are not a manufacturer of LEDs like me, you are out of luck because your cost will be much higher.

As for real life experience, I build LED building projection lights and easily make LEDs project higher than the MH. I never have a deep enough tank to test the water penetration, nor a PAR meter to test in terms of what corals wants, so I just have to wait for some third party to tell me their findings.

OK if you want I can test LEDs for you. I only have 250 watt MH but I have done a ton of testing with MH. see http://www.cnidarianreef.com/lamps.cfm

We could do it a couple of ways. If you could build a single fixture that would be a replacement of a single MH system. I could test that and compare it to MH, out of the tank. If you want some longer term testing with corals I use a 250 watt MH on a frag tanks and I could replace it with a single LED fixture. But I think the out of tank comparisons with MH would be the most useful for reefers.

 

[JBNY]

Because brighter is a relative word to us(human beings) and so are corals. Our eyes respond to different wavelengths of the light while corals react to different wavelengths of light. Each wavelength need energy to power up, so a light that give out 2 zillion wavelengths, but if not a single wavelength is useful to the coral, the coral die. A real life test example happened in Dr Random's refugium, the original light shorted so in the rush I replace a yellow led of 9W on it, the macro die in two weeks. Then I replace it with <4.6W Blue and Red grow light configuration, the aglae is regrown to full strength and all my elkhorn SPS and green polyps and star polyps are opening well. This indicate the mono wavelength of yellow is not used by the macro algae! MH generates a lot of wavelengths other than just the wavelengths that the coral need, so if properly targeted, a less power consuming light source can be more efficient than the more power consuming one.

I guess some of my issues with the light reading posted for LEDs are that they use different methods for their readings. PFO knows the reef industry well. I know them as well as Sanjay, they are very familiar with how we do our testing and measurements. But on their page they are using lumens measurements not PAR as we use. They know that, so why use lumens just so we can not see an apple for apple comparison.

Also they compare it to a 15K bulb, which normally are the dimmest MH bulbs out.

But really I'm not saying that LED can not equal MH right now, just that they seem to make it awful hard for the consumer to be able to make an informed decision.

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

just that they seem to make it awful hard for the consumer to be able to make an informed decision.

I noticed that.:tongue1::tongue1::tongue1::shhh::tongue1::tongue1::tongue1:

 

[clownlover]

jbny i have a 72" 250w solaris if ud like to come and test it i think it could be a great comparison for everyone, i am very curious myself. i also have a great belgian beer collection we can get into...

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

jbny i have a 72" 250w solaris if ud like to come and test it i think it could be a great comparison for everyone, i am very curious myself. i also have a great belgian beer collection we can get into...

I'll be there.

Pm ing you contact info

 

[JBNY]

ugh! you guys are in Brooklyn! It takes me forever to drive out there from Port Jeff Suffolk County. I actually think I know someone else who is only about 10 minutes from my work who might have a 72" Solaris as well.

 

[clownlover]

yea but does he have belgian beers like this one(http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/313/1545 ) voted best beer in the world for 5 years running??

 

[JBNY]

mmmm that's a good point, let's see if I have a weekend free in a week or two.

 

[uncle deisel]

Uncle deisel
What are the dimensions of your tank? Is it 72x24x30? If yes then I wouldn't use LEDs sorry Wingo. It's kind of a deep tank. I would use MH maybe even 400 watters.

yes those are the dementions of the tank first you said go with led and then you say go with mh iam confused i keep gettin no offense to you i appriciate your help.

 

[uncle deisel]

lights

Iam reading all your post and i would be most curios as to how it all plays out after you do your testing.Also were are you guys located i would love to come visit do you have a store or is it all done over the computer.

 

[clownlover]

well at that depth and knowing what u wanna have i would say MH's or an H or I series solaris. jmho.

 

[uncle deisel]

well at that depth and knowing what u wanna have i would say MH's or an H or I series solaris. jmho.

ok well i am going to do more reserch on boyh i still have time before my set up is in action.Thanks for the recomendations.

 

[Sean]

yes those are the dementions of the tank first you said go with led and then you say go with mh iam confused i keep gettin no offense to you i appriciate your help.

??? I said wouldn't use LED on it. Dont get me wrong I love the idea of using LEDs but
MH stand the test of time
MH "shimmer"
MH can penetrate Deeper then LED(at least the current technology I've seen)

but
LEDs are cost efficient
LEDs are programable
LEDs are more versatile

I don't think LEDs are going to replace MH so quickly but they should replace all flourescent lighting. Especially when the price starts going down.

 

[PalmTree]

I'm with you Sean. I have been going back and forth on this for the past 6 monthes but I can't seem to come up with a solid decision on which I would rather have. Everyone's argument is valid and true. I really like the technology of LED but I can't seem to turn my back on the tried and proven results of MH. I do see LEDs as an up and coming product of the future but it still has some bugs that have to be worked out.