boardryder

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I recently have a hair algae outbreak (brownish with a little green) and my coraline is losing to the phophates. This tells me I have a phosphate problem, even though for quite some time my api test kit has been telling me otherwise.

I recently changed things up. Had a refugium/sump along with a canister filter(phosphate and carbon media) and a uv sterilizer. I recently ousted the canister filter and have yet to add back in the uv sterilizer. Since getting rid of the canister filter/uv sterilizier I have had this breakout even after putting new media in the return of my refugium/sump.

My question is if I hook back up my uv sterilizer I am sure my algae problem will go away, but the problem is that I will unknowingly build on my phosphate problem until a similar situation happens again. What is the best solution?
 

Chiefmcfuz

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How long has your tank been up and running?

What are your water parameters? (all of them not just phosphates)

Are you running any type of Phosban reactor?

Are you using Tap water? If so what are you tap waters parameters? What is the TDS of your tap water?

In a previous thread you wrote this:

I just had the same problem. All of a sudden in about a week, brownish green hair algae broke out all over my tank. My api test puts me at 0 phosphates, and 10 nitrates. I go to the lfs to test and they put my phosphates at 30. I cut my lighting back and have done about a 40% water change over a few days and things are already looking better.

Any recommendations on some better testing kits, esp. for phosphates?

What test kits are the LFS using? A hanna meter is probably the most accurate testing tool for phosphates. Cutting lighting back does nothing to regulate your phosphates and will have little impact on your hair algae problem and a 40% Water change will mean nothing if you are putting out the phosphates in your water column and replacing them with fresh mixed phosphates from tap water.

Another thought what salt are you using? Do you test your new water before putting it in the tank? I would try that as well, especially if you are using RO/DI water. Also where did you get your rock from? Did they use tap water? If so then the rock could have absorbed the phosphates and they could be leaching out into the water column causing this problem as well.

Please help us help you.

Thanks.
 

boardryder

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-Tank running for 7 months now 6.5 months with canister, and uv along with refugium/sump
-Aqua C skimmer
-I use 5 stage ro/di water (.001ppm in .000ppm out)
~500 calcium; ~10dkh; ~10 nitrates; 0 nitrites; 0 amonia; ~8.2 ph; ~30 phosphates; ~1.025; 78-80 degree
-Seachem salt mix
-~5-10% water changes every 1-2 weeks (on the low side but getting better)
-lightly stocked? (2 false percs, 1 royal gramma, 1 scooter blenny, couple frag sps, 1 med leather, 2 med sps, ~10 snails, ~10 hermits, cleaner shrimp, ~50lbs live rock)

From what I can tell I am doing everything fairly correct. That post I made is accurate and related to my current problem. The things I have done are helping a little, but things are still not looking pretty.

This second phosphate problem, first was newly cycling tank using tap water, just snuck up on me. The biggest problem is that it happened right after changing my set up, so I am trying to understand why this happened and the best way to prevent it in the future. But most importantly right now is getting rid of this algae and letting my coraline take over again. Also recently upgraded to 4 t5(2 17k and 2 actinic).

After reading your last note. I have lr from several different sources. I don't test my ro/di salt mixed water(necessary?). It is possible that my phophates have built up and are leaching back in from the lr and ls, though I thought I had resolved my initial phosphate problem some time ago. It's just that it happend all of a sudden with a few modest changes I have made.
 
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Chiefmcfuz

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What Kits are the LFS guys using? Have you tried a hanna meter? What are the phos readings on the new water you are using/adding to the tank during the water changes. Was the live rock in the tank when you were using Tap water? If yes, for how long?

You should pick up a phosban reactor.
 

KathyC

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My question is if I hook back up my uv sterilizer I am sure my algae problem will go away, but the problem is that I will unknowingly build on my phosphate problem until a similar situation happens again. What is the best solution?
In addition to what Chief suggested...the UV will not make your hair algae go away (if it is hair algae..got a pic??). Yes, it will kill free floating algae in your water column but that's about it
The UV light also has nothing to do with your phosphate issue.

Get the phosphate reactor and ask and see if someone who lives near you might have a Hanna Meter to measure them for you while you work toward getting it under control :)
 

boardryder

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I understand a phosphate reactor would be good to have, but can I get away with just putting some phosphate media in the return of the sump? I know it is not going to work as well, but right now I don't want to add anything else to my tank, especially something I will need to plumb or find another outlet for.
 

Wes

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I understand a phosphate reactor would be good to have, but can I get away with just putting some phosphate media in the return of the sump? I know it is not going to work as well, but right now I don't want to add anything else to my tank, especially something I will need to plumb or find another outlet for.

I tried this and it's just not that effective and I don't think you will be satisfied with the results.

I am a believer that a phosphate reactor is a must have for everyone. I have tried other mehods (refugium, zeolith bacterial system) and there is nothing simpler and more effective at keeping phosphates down than a phosphate reactor. The best part is, it's cheap.

You will always be adding phosphates when you feed. Testing different salt brands for phosphates is silly. The ones that have phosphate have levels so low that it is negligible. The phosphate you add from feeding is where it is coming from.

Water changes, reduced lighting, reduced feeding are temporary things that may help with an outbreak but you should be more proactive.

Why let your fish go hungry when all it takes is a $30 reactor and some media?
 

boardryder

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Okay, so I am thinking of eventually going with a reactor. What is a good one that will work and is affordable but not junk? Also, I will either be hooking up my uv or a reactor so which one is better to go with? Bummer, I was hopping I didn't have to add yet one more piece of equipment.

In the meantime, a few months, can I remedy the problem with water changes and moderate feeding?

Thank you everyone for helping.
 

KathyC

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Phosban reactors are not expensive..$50 or less should get you the reactor, maxijet400 and maybe even the Phosban media.
They are worth EVERY cent you pay for them!

The 2 Little Fishies brand are excellent (someone is selling one in the For Sale forum...)
They come with the 'plumbing' you need. You only have to have a place to plug it in.

Of the pieces of equipment you mention, I'd put a phosban reactor on my tank long before hooking up the UV light...

Ideally you only want to reduce your feeding if you are overfeeding. Don't stress your fish by feeding them too little but be sure to always rinse the food with RO or SW before feeding.
btw..are you feeding mysis or exclusively flake or pellet? Mysis can be rinsed.. Flake & pellet food has a lot more phosphates in it than rinsed mysis!
 

boardryder

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I feed mostly mysis and brine, with occasionally cyclopeze and flake mixed in. They are cubed and I don't rinse. I also make frozen with ro from freeze dried mysis and brine (it doesn't sink otherwise).

It seems my problem came about after taking out my canister(forcing the water column through the media. Can I just add that back in as a reactor for now? It's roughly the same thing.

Glad to hear about the uv. Originally got it for pest problems and too lazy to replumb my system right now. Thinking of getting a starry blenny and emerald crab to eat up some excess algae.
 

KathyC

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I feed mostly mysis and brine, with occasionally cyclopeze and flake mixed in. They are cubed and I don't rinse. I also make frozen with ro from freeze dried mysis and brine (it doesn't sink otherwise).

It seems my problem came about after taking out my canister(forcing the water column through the media. Can I just add that back in as a reactor for now? It's roughly the same thing.

Glad to hear about the uv. Originally got it for pest problems and too lazy to replumb my system right now. Thinking of getting a starry blenny and emerald crab to eat up some excess algae.

You might want to rehydrate the free dried mysis before feeding so they do sink. Ideally you want the fresh frozen ones.
Are you using the cubes with that gel stuff in them? I understand those are loaded with phosphates.
There is no way to rinse cyclopeeze...so that's ok the way it is.
If the brine is adult brine, you may as well skip it entirely as the nutritional value is near zero. Live baby brine is a better way to go, but you'd have to raise them yourself so they still have the yolk sack ttached when you feed them to your tank.

As far as the canister..the downside to them is you cannot see how much the media is moving around inside of there. Phosban needs to tumble very gently or it will break itself apart, and it is bad for your tank!
What is the flow rate through your canister and do you have a way to adjust it?
 

boardryder

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I mostly use frozen(san francisco brine, bio pure mysis), but have a bunch of freeze dried that I am trying to get rid of without throwing it out. I made my own fozen mix with that to hydrate it. Don't know if the frozen ones have gel in them. I feed brine b/c that is the best way to feed my scooter using a sea squirt as he is a little challenged on his own.
My canister gph is about 300gph, and I could limit the flow. Basically for now I would just use phosphate and carbon media bags in my canister.
 

Chiefmcfuz

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Ok so You feed mysis and brine but don't rinse, you cycled with tap water but have switched to RO yet have not answered whether your live rock was in the tank when you cycled with the tap water. And you don't know what test kits the LFS used.

Phosphates get absorbed by rock and eventually leach out into the water column. You should rinse any frozen food you put into your tank. And you could make a phosban reactor out of a Gatorade bottle and it will work the same as if you bought a 1 million dollar reactor. Trust me I know what I am talking about. When it comes to making things look nice buying an actual reactor is the only thing I would suggest.
 

boardryder

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Only about 25% of my lr was in when I cycled with tap water, and have been using ro/di from lfs and my own since then. I had a phosphate problem about one month into my tank, haven't had one since(that I could tell), and now have one again at 7 months. Also all of my live sand was present in the tap water. I can agree I am probably battling a build up and a leaching problem. I will look into a reactor.

The lfs used a salifert test kit.
 
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boardryder

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Thank you for your help again. I will look into eventually getting a reactor. So after some time of having a reactor all of my phosphates will be pulled out of the rock and sand and only build up of phosphates from food and waste will happen, correct? Assuming I don't add phosphates by any other means. I might hook up my canister with some media in the mean time to help control as it has seemed to to an okay job in the past.
 

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