- Location
- Staten Island
Eddie you make some very good points 
hermit crabs
- Thread starter rgun2515
- Start date
- Status
ok by the way i go to glen island and they are small hermit crabs and my best friend just added about 10-15 hermit crabs from a beach doen the street from glen island and nothing went wrong with anything everything is alive including the hermit crabs
- Location
- Vernon, NJ
are you serious? I dove the waters in and around NYC for close to 30 years
and I mean I dove everywhere, Coney Island creek, Newtown creek, Morris canal, and you would not believe whats been thrown in the water!
up until 1989 the city used to take the hundreds of tons of solid waste( human feces and everything else that get flushed) by boat about 6 miles off shore and dump it
read this about the kill van kull around Staten island
http://www.vitinc.com/nn/freport/dump.html
I will agree that releasing livestock into waters were they don't belong
(IE sankeheads into prospect park lake or central park) is a problem
but to re introduce a hermit crab back into the water it came from and considerate a threat to the local wildlife?
here is a tidbit of in for you may not know do you that we have gators in our storm sewer system?
They should have never been taken out of the local waters to have had to be released back into them. Frank I agree with you about releasing non-indigenous species into the local waters, it is disastrous. I don't agree with this local collecting trend especially because people seem to be doing it first then asking for the information after. If you are going to do something do your research first. Find out the care and requirements first, don't do it and post threads here asking for help after you have collected things and thrown them into your tank.
Every aquarium i have been to that uses the open system pumping in natural sea water stocks those tanks with local livestock only. The non-indegenous tanks are always closed systems.
What happens when the hermits eat caulerpa in your tank, then get released back into local waters? They are going to poop caulerpa into the local waters and present a huge risk of an caulerpa outbreak. Caulerpa is causing huge problems out on the west coast.
If you are going to collect, NEVER release them back into local waters after they have been in your tank.
What happens when the hermits eat caulerpa in your tank, then get released back into local waters? They are going to poop caulerpa into the local waters and present a huge risk of an caulerpa outbreak. Caulerpa is causing huge problems out on the west coast.
If you are going to collect, NEVER release them back into local waters after they have been in your tank.
Cold Water Pacific Tanks
Hi ...wes Thanks For Your Answer.....but You May Have Missed One....i Have Seen Cold Water Pacific Displays On An Open Systems Here On The East Coast... But Thanks Again ..this Is A Very Good Subject.............................eddie............
Hi ...wes Thanks For Your Answer.....but You May Have Missed One....i Have Seen Cold Water Pacific Displays On An Open Systems Here On The East Coast... But Thanks Again ..this Is A Very Good Subject.............................eddie............
Hi eddie,
I find that odd, which aquarium? I have been to aquariums on Coney Island, Baltimore, and Atlanta. The Coney Island and Baltimore open systems have local wildlife and the GA Aquarium in atlanta is land-locked.
There are pretty strict regulations in place to try and prevent invasive species. I just found this article on how they treat ballast water on ships to ensure that non-indigenous invasive species are introduced.
Study shows deoxygenating ballast water can
prevent invasive species and ship corrosion
MOSS LANDING, California?A new study shows that a novel method for combating ship ballast tank corrosion may also be a cost-effective way to prevent the introduction of foreign aquatic species in coastal waters. The method?using nitrogen gas to remove oxygen from the ballast water?presents a rare win-win solution for the shipping industry and environmentalists. Marine ecologist Mario Tamburri of the Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Institute (MBARI) led the study reported this month in the journal Biological Conservation.
Deoxygenating ballast water can prevent invasions of non-native species like Australian tubeworms, Ficopomatus enigmaticus, shown here taking over regions of Elkhorn Slough, California. Photo ? 2001 Wasson.
Non-native organisms are famous for causing environmental problems when, accidentally or intentionally, they are translocated outside their normal range into a new region. "Biological invasions of non-native species are one of the most devastating threats to native communities," said study co-author Kerstin Wasson of the Elkhorn Slough National Estuarine Research Reserve. Wasson has documented more than 55 non-native invertebrates in Elkhorn Slough, California, and became involved in this project because "we urgently need practical solutions to stem the tide of aquatic invasions."
Previous research has shown that ballast water from the global shipping industry inadvertently transports enormous numbers of aquatic organisms from one port to another. These non-native species introductions have caused changes in habitat structure, large economic costs due to factors such as biofouling and predation on commercial species, and are thought to have been involved in 70% of native aquatic species extinctions in the last 100 years. Because of these impacts, researchers from all over the world have been developing ways to clear the ballast water of aquatic organisms that may colonize new habitats.
But current solutions?such as intensive filtration, heat treatments, and biocides?are costly, can be dangerous to ship crewmembers, and can have negative effects on the surrounding environment where the treated waters are discharged. Costly treatments in particular are unlikely to be voluntarily employed by the shipping industry. On the other hand, deoxygenation presents the first solution that safely and effectively removes the majority of organisms found in ballast water while also providing an economic benefit for ship owners.
"Deoxygenation was seen as too expensive for controlling invasive species in ballast water but our study shows that the anticorrosion benefit of this technique is a strong economic incentive for the shipping industry," said Tamburri. "It?s a win-win treatment for solving an environmental problem and reducing ship maintenance costs."
Tamburri and Wasson summarize research by Japanese scientists and engineers at Sumitomo Heavy Industries, Ltd. who developed a deoxygenation technique to combat the costly corrosion experienced in cargo vessels. The method involves bubbling nitrogen gas into ballast water to remove oxygen, thereby preventing oxidation or rust in the tanks. The shipping industry currently uses expensive paints, which must be maintained over the lifetime of the vessel?typically around 25 years. It is estimated that nearly $100,000 (US) per year can be saved for each new ship that uses this deoxygenation technique rather than paint to prevent corrosion.
Aquatic organisms are also sensitive to oxygen levels, leading Tamburri and Wasson to explore the nitrogen ballast water treatment as a deterrent to non-native species introductions. They constructed laboratory experiments mimicking the shipboard deoxygenation technique and examined the oxygen tolerance of larvae from three known nuisance invasive species now found in U.S. waters?an Australian tubeworm, European green crab, and European zebra mussel. The resulting low oxygen environment was toxic to essentially all of the larvae after only two to three days while major ocean crossings by cargo vessels typically take weeks.
Tamburri also reviewed the scientific literature to assess how other aquatic organisms would respond to the low oxygen environments. The reviews show that significant mortality within only hours to days would be expected for animals commonly found in ballast water. However, there are some species?such as those with cyst stages or anaerobic bacteria?that will likely be able to survive the conditions found in a nitrogen treated ballast tank.
"While extremely effective, deoxygenation may not be as comprehensive in removing aquatic organisms as other proposed ballast water treatments but it has the huge advantages of being environmentally benign while also saving ship owners money through rust prevention," said Tamburri. "Until international law mandates total mortality of all ballast water organisms, deoxygenation at the very least deserves further consideration as a high priority treatment."
http://www.mbari.org/news/news_releases/2002/jan07_tamburri.html
If they are going through all this trouble for ballast water on ships, I doubt they release water from non-indigenous tanks back into the ocean w/out treatment.
Wes
I find that odd, which aquarium? I have been to aquariums on Coney Island, Baltimore, and Atlanta. The Coney Island and Baltimore open systems have local wildlife and the GA Aquarium in atlanta is land-locked.
There are pretty strict regulations in place to try and prevent invasive species. I just found this article on how they treat ballast water on ships to ensure that non-indigenous invasive species are introduced.
Study shows deoxygenating ballast water can
prevent invasive species and ship corrosion
MOSS LANDING, California?A new study shows that a novel method for combating ship ballast tank corrosion may also be a cost-effective way to prevent the introduction of foreign aquatic species in coastal waters. The method?using nitrogen gas to remove oxygen from the ballast water?presents a rare win-win solution for the shipping industry and environmentalists. Marine ecologist Mario Tamburri of the Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Institute (MBARI) led the study reported this month in the journal Biological Conservation.
Deoxygenating ballast water can prevent invasions of non-native species like Australian tubeworms, Ficopomatus enigmaticus, shown here taking over regions of Elkhorn Slough, California. Photo ? 2001 Wasson.
Non-native organisms are famous for causing environmental problems when, accidentally or intentionally, they are translocated outside their normal range into a new region. "Biological invasions of non-native species are one of the most devastating threats to native communities," said study co-author Kerstin Wasson of the Elkhorn Slough National Estuarine Research Reserve. Wasson has documented more than 55 non-native invertebrates in Elkhorn Slough, California, and became involved in this project because "we urgently need practical solutions to stem the tide of aquatic invasions."
Previous research has shown that ballast water from the global shipping industry inadvertently transports enormous numbers of aquatic organisms from one port to another. These non-native species introductions have caused changes in habitat structure, large economic costs due to factors such as biofouling and predation on commercial species, and are thought to have been involved in 70% of native aquatic species extinctions in the last 100 years. Because of these impacts, researchers from all over the world have been developing ways to clear the ballast water of aquatic organisms that may colonize new habitats.
But current solutions?such as intensive filtration, heat treatments, and biocides?are costly, can be dangerous to ship crewmembers, and can have negative effects on the surrounding environment where the treated waters are discharged. Costly treatments in particular are unlikely to be voluntarily employed by the shipping industry. On the other hand, deoxygenation presents the first solution that safely and effectively removes the majority of organisms found in ballast water while also providing an economic benefit for ship owners.
"Deoxygenation was seen as too expensive for controlling invasive species in ballast water but our study shows that the anticorrosion benefit of this technique is a strong economic incentive for the shipping industry," said Tamburri. "It?s a win-win treatment for solving an environmental problem and reducing ship maintenance costs."
Tamburri and Wasson summarize research by Japanese scientists and engineers at Sumitomo Heavy Industries, Ltd. who developed a deoxygenation technique to combat the costly corrosion experienced in cargo vessels. The method involves bubbling nitrogen gas into ballast water to remove oxygen, thereby preventing oxidation or rust in the tanks. The shipping industry currently uses expensive paints, which must be maintained over the lifetime of the vessel?typically around 25 years. It is estimated that nearly $100,000 (US) per year can be saved for each new ship that uses this deoxygenation technique rather than paint to prevent corrosion.
Aquatic organisms are also sensitive to oxygen levels, leading Tamburri and Wasson to explore the nitrogen ballast water treatment as a deterrent to non-native species introductions. They constructed laboratory experiments mimicking the shipboard deoxygenation technique and examined the oxygen tolerance of larvae from three known nuisance invasive species now found in U.S. waters?an Australian tubeworm, European green crab, and European zebra mussel. The resulting low oxygen environment was toxic to essentially all of the larvae after only two to three days while major ocean crossings by cargo vessels typically take weeks.
Tamburri also reviewed the scientific literature to assess how other aquatic organisms would respond to the low oxygen environments. The reviews show that significant mortality within only hours to days would be expected for animals commonly found in ballast water. However, there are some species?such as those with cyst stages or anaerobic bacteria?that will likely be able to survive the conditions found in a nitrogen treated ballast tank.
"While extremely effective, deoxygenation may not be as comprehensive in removing aquatic organisms as other proposed ballast water treatments but it has the huge advantages of being environmentally benign while also saving ship owners money through rust prevention," said Tamburri. "Until international law mandates total mortality of all ballast water organisms, deoxygenation at the very least deserves further consideration as a high priority treatment."
http://www.mbari.org/news/news_releases/2002/jan07_tamburri.html
If they are going through all this trouble for ballast water on ships, I doubt they release water from non-indigenous tanks back into the ocean w/out treatment.
Wes
Discharge Water
Hi Wes.......yes Wes ..you Are 100% Right.....if Every One Is Doing There Job 100% ...24-7-365....but This Is The Real World.... Ok If The Pacific Cold Water Displays Are On A Closed System , What Happens When They Make A Water Change ...wear Does The Discharge Water Go....and How Is It Treated...wes Sorry For The All Caps...but As You Can See I Cant Type Or Spell Very Well... Your Points Are Very Well Taken ..thank You.....eddie P.s. Many Of These Public Aqu. Have Summer Help ...college Kids...good Kids And Trying To Help....but Some Times They Are Looking At The Girls In Bathing Suits...i Would Do The Same Thing Eddie
Hi Wes.......yes Wes ..you Are 100% Right.....if Every One Is Doing There Job 100% ...24-7-365....but This Is The Real World.... Ok If The Pacific Cold Water Displays Are On A Closed System , What Happens When They Make A Water Change ...wear Does The Discharge Water Go....and How Is It Treated...wes Sorry For The All Caps...but As You Can See I Cant Type Or Spell Very Well... Your Points Are Very Well Taken ..thank You.....eddie P.s. Many Of These Public Aqu. Have Summer Help ...college Kids...good Kids And Trying To Help....but Some Times They Are Looking At The Girls In Bathing Suits...i Would Do The Same Thing Eddie
Eddie..I sincerely doubt that any of the public aquariums that are discharging water are doing so in a haphazard fashion as they are well aware of the risks as opposed to some members here that are jumping on the bandwagon of 'free' ocean inhabitants and not thinking about the consequences of their actions until afterwards, if at all in some cases.
We're doing our best here to educate folks regarding what is safe to take out of the oceans, what should be left there and the impact of re-releasing what is taken. Granted some of this is educated guess work to us, but the fact remains that hermits eat algae and we don't know for sure what kind of impact the introduction of their waste to our local waters would be.
Why chance it???
I doubly doubt that they are allowing school boys to undertake this seriously environmental impacting procedure and just telling them to get rid of the water anywhere...
Also can't say I noticed a whole lot of bikini clad girls running around distracting anyone at the last public aquarium I visited...lol
We're doing our best here to educate folks regarding what is safe to take out of the oceans, what should be left there and the impact of re-releasing what is taken. Granted some of this is educated guess work to us, but the fact remains that hermits eat algae and we don't know for sure what kind of impact the introduction of their waste to our local waters would be.
Why chance it???
I doubly doubt that they are allowing school boys to undertake this seriously environmental impacting procedure and just telling them to get rid of the water anywhere...
Also can't say I noticed a whole lot of bikini clad girls running around distracting anyone at the last public aquarium I visited...lol
This is very true. Every aquarium/hatchery has disinfectant solution in multiple locations to help minimize the threat of transferring invasives from boots, waders, nets, buckets etc.... moving things tank to tank, or wild to tank, field research also requires gear being disinfected if its going to be used with both "closed or open systems". Almost everything that is used , or that gets wet in any tank, or gets wet Anywhere will get disinfected immediately after use.
Aquariums and hatcheries are VERY responsible in what is being released from their systems. Sure there are probably some that aren't completely reliable, but they do their best. The last thing they want is to be responsible for an outbreak of some nasty disease or invasives.
eddie as far as airline waste goes :iamwithst
HI ....WES... YOUR POST AND KATHYS IS VERY GOOD...I THINK I UNDERSTAND NOW...THANK YOU FOR YOUR ANSWERS...ALL WE CAN DO IS TRY OUR BEST....WES AS YOU POINTED OUT IN YOUR POST IT IS VERY HARD TO KILL ALOT OF THE PARASITES IN THE CYST STAGE..(EGG STAGE)...THIS TO WAS TOLLED TO ME BY DR.NICKARELLI &DR. REGGRE OF OSBORNE LAB..IN THE LATE 60s ...I AM SURE I SPELLED THERE NAMES WRONG... ALSO WHEN WE DUMP AQU WATER DOWN THE DRAIN ,WE CANT BE SURE MICRO ALGE OR ALGA SPORS ARE NOT GOING ALONG WITH THE WATER...MOST IMPORANT NO GIRLS ON THE BEACH NEAR THE PUBLIC AQU ???... THANK YOU ...WES & KATHY FOR ALL THE INFO... I THINK I UNDERSTAND NOW..........BEST REGARDS..........EDDIE........
hi kathy c...........did i say school boys.....or college kids...i think there is a driffence..i would think a school boy is 6 to 12 years old...a person in college would be over 18.........these people are boys & girls that voluteer to work-- with out pay..very good people wanting to help....some need this for extra criedit in there schooling.... i am sure you just made a typo...have a good day ....eddie...
Mandown read the rest of my post. That should answer your question. If not I'll summarize for you.
If you collected them RESPONSIBLY and knew the PROPER CARE REQUIREMENTS before you collected them I still don't like it but to me it makes it more acceptable. People are just going out and collecting things, bringing them home throwing them into tanks and then asking hoe to care for them. This is wrong.
If you collected them RESPONSIBLY and knew the PROPER CARE REQUIREMENTS before you collected them I still don't like it but to me it makes it more acceptable. People are just going out and collecting things, bringing them home throwing them into tanks and then asking hoe to care for them. This is wrong.
- Location
- The Big City
The problem with collection things local, and placing them in your tank, is that they require conditions that are very different from what most, if not all, people have in their reef tank.
The places that you listed above have one big thing in common, and that is that conditions are very similar. Most things from these areas can easily be placed together and will adapt to the slight condition differences without a problem. The local caught things can't adapt to the conditions in own reef tanks and usually die. They need completely different condition, something that should be researched before they're taken out of the water.
Finally, it has nothing to do with money, just because you can catch some thing, whether it's for free or not, doesn't mean you should.
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sorry about this....but i just though of a nightmare..........what about the live bait shops....have you seen how they keep the live killes....so they are taking a local fish holding them in a way you cant beleave.......then sell them to fisher man...who hook them and throu them back into the sea....i wonder if any of the killes got very sick before they were resold,,,,again sorry about this...oh my god..........eddie.......
At the GA aquarium, when you take the behind the scenes tours you have to walk on disinfectant mats anytime you go anywhere near open water.
Killie are not being housed with non native species.
And this opinion is based off of what? Experience, research or wishful thinking?
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