A Do and Don't List on Local Collecting

[ellebelle]

The moderators at Manhattan Reefs have put together this short, informational post on local collecting.

A Do and Don't List on Local Collecting

We at Manhattan Reefs are concerned over the number of collecting threads that have popped up asking for help after a local specimen is already in the hobbyists aquarium. Local fish should be collected with the same care and thought that one puts into purchasing a fish from an LFS or online store. Please do not let the fact that they are free allow anyone go out and begin collecting fish without properly researching them first. We are lucky to have responsible members here who are knowledgeable about our local species. Please ask their advice first before collecting anything and placing it in your tank. Our local fish deserve the same care that we give the tropical fish we buy in stores.

The DO's:

• Be Responsible: Research available local species and the proper care before you bring home anything collected. Utilizing the Internet and Manhattan Reefs' members make this easy. Be aware that there are fish regulated by the DEC which carry a heavy fine if you are caught.

• Prepare: If you have identified a local species you would like and it is legal to collect, make sure you have the proper setup. For example, many local species require cooler temperatures so a chiller would be necessary.

• Quarantine: Do not add any fish to your current system without quarantining them first. Local fish carry isopods, leaches and parasitic worms (both internal and external) that can and will wipe out your tank's livestock. There is also the danger of adding pollutants.

• Protect Your Local Environment: Collect only what you can take care of properly and leave the rest of your catch in its natural environment to prosper.

The DONT'S

• Do Not Keep Unidentified Species: If you catch a fish or Invert that you have not researched or are aware of, leave it be and don't touch it! You may not be able to house it properly and it also can be dangerous to humans.

• Do NOT Return to the Local Waters: Returning fish collected in local waters can introduce parasites and bacteria not native to our local environment. These introductions can cause wipe outs of our local species and cause irreversible damage to the environment.

• Do Not Collect in Masses: Just because you can catch a lot of fish and inverts doesn't mean you should take them all. Collect what you can keep properly and leave the rest to enjoy their home.

• Do Not Sell Your Catch: Get caught selling local species and suddenly you will wish you were only getting that $1,000 fine for the baby fluke. There are different rules for commercial collection of fish that come with heavy fines and even jail time. Check the DEC website for more information.

• Do Not Collect Prohibited Species: CITES species carry a heavy fine if you take them out of the wild. Please refer to the CITES website for a full list of prohibited speces at http://www.cites.org/eng/resources/species.html

 

[e.muehlbauer]

Its not only parasites that local fish carry....Here's a picture (hopefully) of a bluefish I caught last year...its got a granuloma caused by Mycobacterium- fish tuberculosis. Turns out there is quite a bit of that in mainly striped bass, but also bluefish. Fortunately, this is the only infected one I caught.

 

[jhale]

:arg: :dead1:

thanks for the info and the photo (I think)

 

[georgelc86]

Guys, what about adding catch and release to that list as well. Even if you know the species and have the proper facilities at home, that doesnt necessarily mean you have to take it back with you. It's just as enjoyable observing what you have found and releasing it as it is enjoying it at home and having a 50/50% chance of survival. Having the proper facilities and knowledge doesn't gaurentee survival. Just a thought.

 

[Chapz]

Please be advised, DEC website doesnt cover all those issues about fines.

See link below for saltwater fishing regulations.
http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/7894.html

 

[e.muehlbauer]

I think the collecting falls into 2 categories here...most of the collecting threads I saw were more along the lines of collecting tropicals brought up by the gulf stream. There was a recent article about this in the NY Times. These would be presumably added to a reef tank...These are fish that would die in the fall...so "catch and release" would'nt help them anyway. The other category would apply to local fish...these cannot, or shouldn't,
go into into a reef tank. However, they can make for a very interesting dedicated local tank. But, yes, unless you have a cold room or a chiller, they will not be happy in the long run. And DEC regulations should be followed...there may be restrictions on the collection of "bait" fish (killies and silversides) in large numbers...although on a small level, I believe its legal (look at all the little kids seining snapper bait). Blowfish, toadfish, and sea robins are loads of fun in a tank...but they are high maintenance, needing lots of food and are heavy nitrate factories...But if you have a large enough tank, why not?
Oh...and on the disease front...there is also lymphocystus occasionally seen in bass around Long Island...I once saw a striper so covered it looked like a cauliflower fish...elephant man fish?

 

[marki24]

yeah thanks for the photo, perfect timing (lunch).

 

[Domboski]

We need everyone's help educating people on this topic. It is refreshing to see all of your responses.

BTW, Thanks for the picture!:knockedou

 

[qy7400]

• Do Not Collect Prohibited Species: CITES species carry a heavy fine if you take them out of the wild. Please refer to the CITES website for a full list of prohibited speces at http://www.cites.org/eng/resources/species.html

This is a great thread but I have to ask as this keeps getting posted with no proof just speculation and opinion never has anyone provided proof.

CITES governs international trade, so unless you're sell to a friend outside the US how could this possibly apply to local collection. Again add in these are not local animals that will die when the water temps drop so what are they protecting? Does anyone have a link that specifically states this.

No question if you plan to collect you should not only know what you're collecting but how to properly care for them.

 

[Domboski]

The thread is for local fish and tropical strays. The selling aspect is mainly for local fish. We also want to avoid someone collecting 30 pilotfish for selling purposes and then finding out there is no market for them.

There has been a few threads of members collecting local fish and inverts and not knowing how to care for them so the concern is not only for tropicals.

CITES is posted as a CYA. It pays to be more cautious.

Good points Joe.

 

[qy7400]

A little tunnel vision on my part, any collecting has been for tropical only; if I don't know what it is back it goes, odds are it'll be there next week if I find out I want it.
It's a good thing people don't think like me all the time

 

[ellebelle]

CITES governs international trade, so unless you're sell to a friend outside the US how could this possibly apply to local collection.

True. However, if an animal has made it onto the CITES list, then it is likely endangered and should probably be left in the ocean anyway, whether it is local or tropical.

 

[e.muehlbauer]

CITES is absolutely useless except in cases of international trade, and even there its value can be limited because it can encourage a black market made far more lucrative by a CITES ban. A case in point- Paphiopedilum orchids (my other big hobby). All species of paph were banned by CITES in 1990. Subsequently, in the late 90's, several spectacular species were discovered in Vietnam. They could not be exported even for propagation, because the parents would have been collected. The result was a black market bonanza...at least one of these species is believed to be virtually extinct in the wild. Meanwhile, many plants were propagated from the original plants...and in some countries, these propagated plants are freely available. However, in the US, these plants are still illegal, because their great-great etc grandparents had been illegal. A market flooded by propagated plants would have eliminated the market for wild plants...in fact, this has happened in much of the world....except in Vietnam! There is now a market for these collected plants in Vietnam itself, where they are treated as throwaway plants, the same way many people in the US treat Home Depot orchids, discarding them after bloom. But CITES can do nothing.....the plants are within Vietnam itself. Had the original plants been made available for propagation, with full distribution of propagated plants, the original populations would still be there. As with SPS corals, propagated orchids are much easier to grow, faster growing, and better looking. Also, what goes on to CITES is as much political as scientific...a CITES ban does not guarantee a species rarity. Case in point- many Paphiopedilum species are not threatened, and are in fact abundant, yet they are banned....but the Bluefin tuna is getting rarer and rarer...yet despite years of requests it has never been placed on CITES.

 

[ellebelle]

My point was simply to be aware of whether or not what you are collecting is endangered. We could argue into infinity about CITES and the IUCN Red List and conservation criteria and whether or not people should be allowed to propagate different species, etc. etc. But for the casual hobbyist, if something is endangered it should be left in the ocean. That was my only point.

 

[qy7400]

True. However, if an animal has made it onto the CITES list, then it is likely endangered and should probably be left in the ocean anyway, whether it is local or tropical.

I'll agree to this for the most part, where I would disagree goes beyond the scope of this thread and the casual hobbyist.

And Lissa these are friendly debates and quandaries, no arguments here

 

[h20 freak]

Can anyone direct me to a list of tropicals that are strays up here, I thought I saw a list on MR a few weeks ago.

 

[Paul B]

Also it is never legal to collect or even disturb beach grass. The grass that grows on dunes or is underwater at high tide. These grasses help hold the dunes together.
There is also a heavy fine for disturbing the nesting birds on the dunes, usually piping plovers which lay their eggs there. We also have a large diamond back terripin population in places on the Sound that have associated tide pools. These turtles lay their eggs just above the high tide line and can easily be crushed.
The baby turtles are cute and adapt well to aquarium life but they and the adults are protected and should not be bothered.
Paul

 

[georgelc86]

Guys, I am going to throw the flipside out here. Why collect to begin with? Arent we as MR members proud in the fact that we are into low impact reefing, conservation, saving the enviroment blah blah blah etc etc. I got branded a planet killer last week on MR because at the moment dont beleive in E85 ethanol, yet I beleive in hybrids. If that is the case then why are we even diving into our local waters and possibly disturbing the balance in those waters in either a minimal or larger scale. Its bad enough we have synthetic fertilizers, pesticides, car care products and other industrious waste running off into local waters, why impact the local scene any further. People have mentioned tropical strays, did it ever occur to anyone that those tropical strays may be a food source for certain local species. Also, money wise wouldnt you in theory be spending more money to house local collections. I mean you have to buy a chiller to maintain temp and those arent cheap and neither is the power to run them especially when 'con'ed is now charging 21cents on the kilowatt. Just a thought to play with.

 

[inkblue]

Guys, I am going to throw the flipside out here. Why collect to begin with? Arent we as MR members proud in the fact that we are into low impact reefing, conservation, saving the enviroment blah blah blah etc etc. I got branded a planet killer last week on MR because at the moment dont beleive in E85 ethanol, yet I beleive in hybrids. If that is the case then why are we even diving into our local waters and possibly disturbing the balance in those waters in either a minimal or larger scale. Its bad enough we have synthetic fertilizers, pesticides, car care products and other industrious waste running off into local waters, why impact the local scene any further. People have mentioned tropical strays, did it ever occur to anyone that those tropical strays may be a food source for certain local species. Also, money wise wouldnt you in theory be spending more money to house local collections. I mean you have to buy a chiller to maintain temp and those arent cheap and neither is the power to run them especially when 'con'ed is now charging 21cents on the kilowatt. Just a thought to play with.

:wow: good poinT !!

i'Ve noticed that more coLLecting is being done sinCe moneY is tiGht... so muCh for saVing the environment speeches.

 

[jhale]

imo as far as impacting the environment it's better to collect a tropical stray butterfly fish than to take one off the reef and expend the fuel needed to ship it around the world.

No one on a reef site should be throwing stones about energy use, I mean if your that concerned you should take down the tank completely. I'm going to be setting up a reef with as little energy use as possible, stay tuned :bunny: