Fish Acclimation - screw up - Help!

[Jdubbs]

I just got a shipment of four fish - 2 false perculas - powder brown tang and a four line wrasse.

I'm not new to reefing, but I had a brain fart. I acclimated the fish for four hours as standard - then did a fresh water dip in RO water. I forgot to heat up the dip water... (idiot) the fish were dipped for 5 mins - the difference in water temp was 70.8 degrees in freshwater - 77.8 in my show tank.. Are the fish in huge jeopardy of internal problems and ich? They are not breathing too heavy from what I see.. behavior wise is as follows

The tang is swimming like crazy - no real noticeable discoloration - picking on algae since I put him in.

the wrasse has been sporadic, mostly hiding in dark areas. not eating any food I put in

the false percs are swimming - but not moving much and sticking together (they were not a pair) and I see a white string hanging from the bottom of one. not eating either..

Am I being paranoid? can I do anything to prevent ich or help them not stress?

 

[duke62]

4 hours wow i only acclimate them for 45 min.then i usually put them in qt for 3 weeks to 1 month then introduce them into main tank.when i put them in main i acclimate them again for 45 min then they are all good.keep an eye on them in the next couple hours you probably wont see any signs till then.somebody else will chime in on how they acclimate also.

 

[littlebuck70]

Dipping for 5 mins? That's a long time.

Best thing to do is turn the lights off and leave them be. If you keep messing with them they will get stressed out.

Also if i have never acclimated the fish that i just stuck in my 180 from my 125.

And that includes 6 tangs and 6 clowns.

I know half of the wholesalers dont do this so either.

 

[wrasseman]

take this as an opinion from someone who has broken all the rules they will be fine . i lead a very busy life and i,ve left fish in bags in my car overnite ,ive left them sitting on the table for hours and gone shopping , they have gone threw hell before you get them and itry not to do thease things but it happens ! im having good luck with no acclimation period and a fresh dip that is close to temp ,finger tested temp ,get it ? i have 35 wrasses that are tough shippers and i think the quickest you can get them out of that bag from hell is the best. i go on 2 day trips collecting fish and when i get home its tough to do the right thing ,some of the fish have been in coolers for 2 days and i have great results moving them into the tank asap . 99% success ,so dont be worried ,it wont even help now ,its done good luck

 

[Jdubbs]

Thanks guys.. Whats done is done.. I appreciate the advice, I was just looking for some reassurance. I recently had ich that wiped out my whole tank.. I just finished the 6 week waiting period.. and the last thing I want to lose sleep on is the chance my fish I justed waited 2 months for are going to get ich again or die from internal harm that my dumb monkey butt caused them.. Lights are off- I havent been doing anything besides watching... I will feed with garlic xtreme to boost the immune system.. and just pray.. any other feedback will make me sleep better.. thnx guys

 

[marrone]

First a fresh water dip isn't going to do anything but stress out the fish. Second you should Quarantine all your fish before you place them into your main tank. It's very possible that one or all of your fish could have some type of disease.

 

[ming]

whats the point of acclimation, when afterwords you do a freshwater dip with totally different PH, SG, etc?

 

[Jdubbs]

well I put buffer in the fresh water, the point was to kill off any parasites that may have developed in the shipping water. Thats what I was told to do by the wholesaler. I'm worried the temp difference really stressed them out internally, although they are not showing too much stress externally.

 

[Jdubbs]

It seems the dip was unnecessary.. any suggestions on things I can do now?

 

[marrone]

You could setup a quarantine tank and quarantine your fish for 2 - 6 weeks. If during that time you then see that they have something, you can them start to treat them. It also give them some down time before being placed into the main tank.

 

[ZANYMASTER]

Wrasses are naturally shy fish anyway.I have one hiding for days now but pops up to eat.

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

I would not worry

 

[georgelc86]

Dubbs, I think the only thing I see wrong here is your temp, but thats not too bad. And 4 hours?! Are you using the drip method? At about three drops a second your fish should be acclimated in about 45 to 1 and a half hours. Not knocking you on that just trying to saving you some time, there is nothing wrong with 4 hours. I dip as well but the only time I dip if there is a noticable infection. 5 minutes may be a little too long 1 minute is fine. When you dipped did the fish sink to the bottom or where they bugging out. In my experiences, fish that sink will survive and fish that look like they are ODing on crack will more than likely not make it. And I dont want to sound like the QT police but dipping is not a substitute for QTing new livestock and I hope you werent using that as a shortcut. Dipping doesnt necessarily remove or kill all parasites its really a method to reduce the number of pathogens. Really gotta QT these guys man, I had the same problem you had where ich just wiped out everything. That was almost a year ago, now I finally bought some new guys and there are sitting in my QT right now. Right now it sounds like the fish are in your main tank. The minute you see something wrong you should pull that fish out to try to minimize your damage to your tank. Goodluck Dubbs.

 

[Jdubbs]

Thanks everyone.. I will look out to notice any ich or irratic behavior. I checked this morning and the wrasse is out, the tang looks normal - I had some algar algae that he was munching on and he looks like he is enjoying his new home. The clowns haven't really moved around much, they look a little stressed as they have not been exploring the tank. They are wild and I have two anenomes.. I would of thought under normal circumstances that they would hosted by now. The lights have been off since I put them in the tank so I can't tell if the whitish string is still there on one of the clowns. I will use the garlic, and take them out (if I can) if I see ich or what else should I look for as far as sickness?

When I dipped, there was no erratic behavior.. the wrasse floated to the bottom and didnt move. The tang and clowns just swam in place.

Thanks again

 

[georgelc86]

Sounds good to me Dubbs. It may take a week or two for them to host the anemone.

 

[cowfish]

First a fresh water dip isn't going to do anything but stress out the fish. Second you should Quarantine all your fish before you place them into your main tank. It's very possible that one or all of your fish could have some type of disease.

Actually, freshwater dips, if properly done, can be effective in removing many parasites since they lack the ability to osmoregulate. The sudden change in salinity kills them. Is this a cure all? Obviously not, but a freshwater dip in water that's the appropriate pH and temp (can also add methylene blue to the freshwater dip) is helpful and most fish tolerate it well. Bob Fenner recommends this method prior to placing the fish in quarantine.

You accilmate THEN dip because if you do it the other way around you're just putting the fish back in the water it came from which will contain the pathogens/parasites you're trying to get rid of.

 

[marrone]

Actually, freshwater dips, if properly done, can be effective in removing many parasites since they lack the ability to osmoregulate. The sudden change in salinity kills them. Is this a cure all? Obviously not, but a freshwater dip in water that's the appropriate pH and temp (can also add methylene blue to the freshwater dip) is helpful and most fish tolerate it well. Bob Fenner recommends this method prior to placing the fish in quarantine..

Fresh water dips have little effect, outside of maybe removing some parasites on the surface. Then again most parasites can easily handed the change and the fresh water dip doesn't do much, outside of stressing the fish out even more. Fresh water baths, of 20 - 25 minutes, have more of an effect but even then aren't that effective. If you want to take it even a step further you could do baths using formalin, which would be more effective but much more stressful.

Also to treat a fish, which a fresh water dip is, without knowing what, or if, the fish has something isn't a good thing. You first should QT the fish and then determine if it has something. At that point you can start to treat it for what it has.

Also just because someone recommends something doesn't mean it's right or correct. A lot of people do things because they've done it that way for a long time, and fell that it works, regardless if it really does or not.

 

[cowfish]

Marrone

From Wetwebmedia:

"Methylene blue and fresh water is useful for both marine fishes and many invertebrates, a help against ich, skin and gill flukes, funguses, velvet (Amyloodinium) and most other external parasitic and infectious diseases. It has several other added benefits. It's a good oxygenating dye, sort of like our blood's hemoglobin, aiding in keeping oxygen concentration high. It also is helpful in reducing light penetration, soothing frightened livestock. In fact, Methylene Blue converts methemoglobin to useful hemoglobin, reversing the ill-effects of nitrite and even cyanide exposure.
These qualities are what make Methylene blue particularly useful as an "anti-fungal" for transporting stock and rearing eggs."

From Algone.com:

"Fish dips and baths will remove external bacteria, parasites, and other disease causing organisms before introducing them into the main tank. Dips and baths are the next best thing to prophylactic quarantine...
Saltwater species have a constant exchange of fluids called osmosis, which in simple terms is when pure water dilutes the mineral and salt rich water in order to equalize. Freshwater will rupture the cells of the parasites instantly killing them in great numbers independently of the status of the reproductive cycle. (i.e. ick medications are only effective on the free-floating tomites). The freshwater dip is very effective to rid the fish of parasites causing black ick, marine ick, velvet and flukes, but ineffective towards bacterial or fungal diseases."

Bestfish.com


"What it treats. Freshwater baths can help rid the skin and gills of saltwater fish of several common microscopic parasites, including "Ich" (Cryptocaryon), "Velvet" (Amyloodinium), Brooklynella, Uronema and Skin Flukes.. It has not been shown to be useful in treating bacterial, viral or fungus infections. How it works. By osmosis, water naturally flows into the cells of these parasites, causing the cell membranes to rupture, killing the parasite."

J. J. KANEKO II 1 R. YAMADA 2 J. A. BROCK 3 <A href="http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/119457142/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0#c1">R. M. NAKAMURA 4
1 College of Veterinary Medicine, University of Florida, Gainesville, Florida, USA 2 Hawaiian Agronomics (International) Inc., Honolulu, Hawaii, USA 3 Aquacuhure Development Program, Honolulu, Hawaii, USA 4 Department of Animal Sciences, University of Hawaii, Honolulu, Hawaii

"Abstract: A disease of saltwater, cage-cultured tilapia, Oreochromis mossambicus (Trewavas), caused by the marine monogenean, Neobenedenia melleni (MacCallum, 1927) Yamaguti, 1963, is described. Up to 400 parasites were found attached to the body surface of individual fish. Heavily infected fish showed hyperirritability, heavy mucus secretion and discoloration. Pathology was most marked on the eye, with corneal opacity initially, followed by buphthalmos, corneal ulceration and rupture of the eye with subsequent degeneration of internal structure. The infection was successfully treated using 2 min freshwater dips."

There are plenty more references and research articles out there. Not sure where you get your info from, but I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree with your previous posts.

 

[marrone]

Marrone

From Wetwebmedia:

"Methylene blue and fresh water is useful for both marine fishes and many invertebrates, a help against ich, skin and gill flukes, funguses, velvet (Amyloodinium) and most other external parasitic and infectious diseases. It has several other added benefits. It's a good oxygenating dye, sort of like our blood's hemoglobin, aiding in keeping oxygen concentration high. It also is helpful in reducing light penetration, soothing frightened livestock. In fact, Methylene Blue converts methemoglobin to useful hemoglobin, reversing the ill-effects of nitrite and even cyanide exposure.
These qualities are what make Methylene blue particularly useful as an "anti-fungal" for transporting stock and rearing eggs."

Once again a fresh water dip does nothing, even if you use methylene blue. They don't get rid of most, if not all, parasites and just stress fish out even more, even if they may put more oxygen in the water. Remember the dip or bath is very short, not nearly enough to kill most parasites. Also a lot of people, and places, drip their fish and add Methylene Blue to the drip, does it get rid of parasite? No, as they still come down with diseases once placed in the tank.

From Algone.com:

"Fish dips and baths will remove external bacteria, parasites, and other disease causing organisms before introducing them into the main tank. Dips and baths are the next best thing to prophylactic quarantine...
Saltwater species have a constant exchange of fluids called osmosis, which in simple terms is when pure water dilutes the mineral and salt rich water in order to equalize. Freshwater will rupture the cells of the parasites instantly killing them in great numbers independently of the status of the reproductive cycle. (i.e. ick medications are only effective on the free-floating tomites). The freshwater dip is very effective to rid the fish of parasites causing black ick, marine ick, velvet and flukes, but ineffective towards bacterial or fungal diseases."

Once again fresh water dips and baths will remove very little parasites. Most parasite can easily take fresh water dips or baths, not to mention most parasite, like ich, are inside the fish and the dips will do nothing to get rid of them.

Also dips and bath aren't even close, let alone the next best thing, to QT your fish or treating them for what they have. Very bad advise.

Using fresh water dips as a treatment, for something the fish mayn't even have is very bad advise. You should never treat a fish with something unless you know what you're treating it for.

Bestfish.com


"What it treats. Freshwater baths can help rid the skin and gills of saltwater fish of several common microscopic parasites, including "Ich" (Cryptocaryon), "Velvet" (Amyloodinium), Brooklynella, Uronema and Skin Flukes.. It has not been shown to be useful in treating bacterial, viral or fungus infections. How it works. By osmosis, water naturally flows into the cells of these parasites, causing the cell membranes to rupture, killing the parasite."

J. J. KANEKO II 1 R. YAMADA 2 J. A. BROCK 3 <A href="http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/119457142/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0#c1">R. M. NAKAMURA 4
1 College of Veterinary Medicine, University of Florida, Gainesville, Florida, USA 2 Hawaiian Agronomics (International) Inc., Honolulu, Hawaii, USA 3 Aquacuhure Development Program, Honolulu, Hawaii, USA 4 Department of Animal Sciences, University of Hawaii, Honolulu, Hawaii

"Abstract: A disease of saltwater, cage-cultured tilapia, Oreochromis mossambicus (Trewavas), caused by the marine monogenean, Neobenedenia melleni (MacCallum, 1927) Yamaguti, 1963, is described. Up to 400 parasites were found attached to the body surface of individual fish. Heavily infected fish showed hyperirritability, heavy mucus secretion and discoloration. Pathology was most marked on the eye, with corneal opacity initially, followed by buphthalmos, corneal ulceration and rupture of the eye with subsequent degeneration of internal structure. The infection was successfully treated using 2 min freshwater dips."

There are plenty more references and research articles out there. Not sure where you get your info from, but I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree with your previous posts.

If that was the case any time your fish came down with a disease all you would have to do is it take and give it a fresh water dip or bath, then all the parasites would be gone, but it's not the case, actually far from it.

And there are plenty of reference that say different from what you posted. As for where I'm getting my info, well it's from over 25+ years of keeping marine fish, plus knowing many people that have been around just as long. I've had many discussion with people on fish and about diseases. Also just because someone has an internet website column or writes a book, doesn't mean they are right or even know what they're talking about. There are many people that have been in this hobby for years that know way more than people who write books or have their own website column.

 

[ZBT3091]

i dont want to push any buttons but bob fenner is a professional as are his crew so I would probably believe them