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Old 10-11-2008, 09:57 AM
#1
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Reef venomous-dangerous critters

;-) Everyone, Hi LeslieS

Yesterday...hmmm...a few hours ago to be more exact..., I browsed some excellent threads here in the forum and came across this excellent Tank Girl ( 1 2 3 ... Last Page) thread by LeslieS. As I browsed through it a came across page 6, post nÂș 58 where I found this picture, of Snowball I believe
which I believe to be of a fire urchin Astenosoma varium or at least a sea urchin of the genus Astenosoma. Below you can see Astenosoma marisrubri, which as the species name indicates...marisrubri=Red Sea...is very beautiful but also very....Venomous

It was photographed in the Red Sea during a live aboard dive by my friend Julio Macieira also now a Manhattan reefs member and Reefforum.net administrator and owner.

Well I have this sticky thread about Organismos venenosos-perigosos do recife/Reef venomous-dangerous critters that I have been putting together post by post and other people are also contributing, to inform people dealing with these living reef jewels, about what may lurk beneath the dazzling beauty of many of them, which can in some cases be as both much fatal as it is dazzling beautiful.
Some two days ago or so, I noticed these two threads my fish almost killed me last night ( 1 2) and rabbitfish venom. Even before having noticed those to threads I had already decided to bring this other thread of mine to Manhattan Reefs because I don't want any one to get hurt, but there's several other things I want to bring over and share, however when finally I came across LesliS photograph above...well that was it...safety comes first so here it is. I'll be placing posts about all the critters I presently have covered in my original thread and will carry on with others not yet covered. If you have personal experiences and/or photographs or if you want to have a say about this or that critter, even if it is already covered, please do not hesitate to write a post. The more information we have the better can we enjoy safely our tiny bits of sea at home, school...and also out there in the sea while diving, or visiting the low tide zone.

Please understand that this is not to alarm, this is to inform, explain, help!

Echinoderm Envenomation

Quote:
eMedicine - Echinoderm Envenomation ...
Urchins with pedicellaria may envenom following simple handling if sufficient contact occurs. The flower sea urchin (Toxopneustes pileolus) is reputedly the most venomous of urchins. Intense radiating pain, paresthesias, hypotension, respiratory distress, and muscular paralysis are potential sequelae of contact with this species and may last up to 6 hours. Reportedly, a female pearl diver became unconscious after accidental contact with the flower sea urchin and subsequently drowned.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald L. Shimek - Marine Invertebrates - ISBN 1-890087-bb-1 - Page 402

Asthenosoma spp.
Fire Urchins

Maximum size: Up to 6 in. (15 cm) in diameter.
Range: Indo-Pacific
Minimum Aquarium Size: Large tanks, 100 gal. (380 litres) or larger
Lighting: Immaterial
Foods & Feeding: Herbivorous; need an occasional meaty meal.
Aquarium suitability/Reef aquarium Compatibility: Not suitable for a reef aquarium; capable of inflicting a painful, dangerous sting.
Captive care: Vividly colored, these stinging urchins have a flexible, rather than rigid, body. Long fragile spines are visible, but small, comb like groups of shorter spines are found between them. These smaller spines have repetitive swellings that look like beads, and they have bulbous poison sacs just below the tips. The venom sacs are colored bright blue in some species, bright white in others. If the spines pierce the skin, the pain is often sharp and immediate, but it also often seems to increase in intensity over the next few hours. Once in a reef tank the urchins would be harmless, but transferring them or inadvertently touching them during maintenance could be dangerous. Careless aquarists can be seriously injured.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Astenosoma marisrubri
...Hey Snowball, at last we found "yea", it's been long since we've last seen "yea"...so this is where you went after all...New York...all right,cool...the Big Apple...Manhattan...wow...grand style...beautiful city...and to LeslieS exquisite shaped tank...lucky you.., but don't you hurt her accidentally...all the best...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astenosoma
...well you nice reefers we, the Astenosoma genus sea urchins, are not bad critters, and people like Julio every now and then visit us in the tropical seas and photograph us, and others even keep us in their home reefs, like LesliS, but the thing is...we can't be touched because we are venomous. Well...not that we wanted to be so...but we have to be like this to defend ourselves from those gluttonous fish, the Balistidae also known as Trigger fishes, otherwise we would be easy prey for them, so please bear with us...we don't mean bad...please be very careful handling us...use anti puncture gloves or anti-Stick surgical gloves ... we are not evil but could accidentally be

I think it is clear that these species are very beautiful but also dangerous...

Well this said, I could have mistakenly identified Snowball, but...please be careful LeslieS and everyone else as well...don't forget to use anti-puncture gloves.

I'm off to the sea now and will be back to write about the blue ring octopus....

...one thing more...LeslieS who's the manufacturer of that exquisite tank of yours...I really liked it. I have two triangular tanks, one of them bow front, and also have an hexagon and I have the place for one like yours...I like exquisite geometry for tanks...even if some times it makes difficult to establish adequate water motion.

Cheers
Pedro Nuno ;-)


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Last edited by Pedro Nuno Ferreira; 10-11-2008 at 10:10 AM.. Reason: Spelling mistakes...ups ;-) and correction of a link
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Old 10-11-2008, 11:26 AM
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I could be wrong, but I believe Snowball is a purple and white urchin of a similar shape. I'll try and find a pic for you. I've seen her in person.
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Old 10-13-2008, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ellebelle View Post
I could be wrong, but I believe Snowball is a purple and white urchin of a similar shape. I'll try and find a pic for you. I've seen her in person.
Hi ellebelle, Hi everyone ;-)
I don't know if LeslieS has already seen this thread, but I'll be asking Her about that in her tank thread as well as for the tank manufacturer. Just tell her to be careful.

Well and now I'm going to continue with the Blue Ring Octopus as mentioned previously, an octopus which is represented by three species Hapalochlaena lunulata; Hapalochlaena maculosa; Hapalochlaena fasciata that can show up in the trade quite easily and for a price I would say accessible given the animal in question...Over here some 70~80 Euros (some 110~120 US Dollars) would be enough to bring it home...along with the possibility of


Now the blue ring octopus is one of the most venomous critters living on earth and it is quite small (does not grow more than what you will be seeing) as you can see here in this video that frankly I don't like much to see as these children were exposed to severe risk...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=kLPXpluXnFE

Here you can read more about the blue ring octopus and its venom, feeding and reproduction habits

Quote:
Originally Posted by wikipedia
Venom


Blue-ringed octopus from New South Wales, Australia


The blue-ringed octopus is the size of a golf ball, but its venom is powerful enough to kill humans. There is no known antidote.
The octopus produces venom that contains tetrodotoxin, 5-hydroxytryptamine, hyaluronidase, tyramine, histamine, tryptamine, octopamine, taurine, acetylcholine, and dopamine. The major neurotoxin component of blue-ringed octopus venom was originally known as maculotoxin, but was later found to be identical to tetrodotoxin,[1] a neurotoxin which is also found in pufferfish and cone snails. Tetrodotoxin blocks sodium channels, causing motor paralysis and sometimes respiratory arrest leading to cardiac arrest due to a lack of oxygen. The toxin is created by bacteria in the salivary glands of the octopus[2].
First aid treatment is pressure on the wound and rescue breathing. It is essential, if rescue breathing is required, that it be continued until the victim begins to breathe, which may be some hours. Hospital treatment involves respiratory assistance until the toxin is washed out of the body. The symptoms vary in severity, with children being the most at risk because of their small body size. The victim might be saved if artificial respiration starts before marked cyanosis and hypotension develop. Victims who live through the first 24 hours generally go on to make a complete recovery.[3]
It is essential that immediate and full time respiratory support be given (e.g. artificial respiration/rescue breathing) even if the victim appears not to be responding. Tetrodotoxin poisoning can result in the victim being fully aware of his/her surroundings but unable to breathe. Because of the paralysis that occurs they have no way of signalling for help or any way of indicating distress. Respiratory support, together with reassurance, until medical assistance arrives ensures that the victim will generally recover well.
The blue-ringed octopus is currently one of the most toxic known sea creatures. Another cephalopod, Pfeffer's Flamboyant Cuttlefish, produces a venom roughly equal in potency to that of the blue-ringed octopus.[4] Despite its small size, the blue-ringed octopus carries enough poison to kill 26 adult humans within minutes[5].

Quote:
The saliva of blue-ringed octopuses contains a powerful nerve toxic that blocks nerves from transmitting messages to the brain. The victim's voluntary muscles (involuntary muscles such as the heart, iris and gut lining continue to function) are paralyzed. People die then from lack of oxygen. If mouth to mouth resuscitation is given, the victim recovers fully. Blue-ringed octopuses are shy and not aggressive, they tend to avoid people (not their natural prey - much too big!).
Here you can see more images of it as well as other venomous marine animals


Bellow you can see some images and live images in one of the places it is often found, boat piers, swimming through human garbage in search for food


http://youtube.com/watch?v=_HKkMOi3dQw


By the way if you dive, remember that a 3mm wet suit does not offer protection against the bite!


The rings provide camouflage as they help to confound with the background


http://youtube.com/watch?v=l2Cly17g3oY

and there is a lot more images and videos and information about it available on the internet, just perform a search by Blue Ring Octopus in Google search engine and on YouTube and see the results...its easy and you can do it as much as I can as you have your own computers and internet for that.

In this image here of a preserved specimen of Haploclaena maculosa, you can read written on the tag
Quote:
This specimen bites cause paralysis
To complete the information about the Blue Ring Octopus recommend the reading of page 320 of the Marine Invertebrates Guide By Ronald L. Shimek - ISBN 1-890087-66-1 - TFH.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Ring Octopus - Haplochlaena spp.
Look we are not evil and also do not want to harm you, we are cute, smart and very small...but we are extremely venomous....to defend our selves, subsist or we might have gone extinct, so we have this powerful, inconspicuous and silent weapon...the venom!
One last thing, octopus are very intelligent animals which among others makes them notorious escapees so it is another aspect to bear in mind, especially when you deal with such a venomous animal and have cats, dogs, or even small children in the house who could find one of these laying on the floor dead or still alive and trying to hide or reach another tank where they saw fish swimming....and one day or another you will have to perform maintenance to the tank...
Fortune favours the bold but not the unwary. Please do remember that you may not have somebody next to you that knows about this and is able to maintain enough cold blood to maintain you alive until you can do it by your selves...if you ever can.

Please understand that this is not to alarm, this is to inform, explain, help!

Take care.

Cheers
Pedro Nuno ;-)


Post Scriptum: I'll be back next time with the cigarette cone snail...
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Zanclus canensces, cornutus, Kihikihi ou o zigzags always feed your Zanclus, Pomacanthus, Apolemichtys, Euxiphipops, all spongivores natural live sponge or try to, if you don't know how, see my article or ask me.

Last edited by Pedro Nuno Ferreira; 10-14-2008 at 09:34 AM.. Reason: Spelling...;-) and correction of a quote code...I think it was because of the late hour and feeling very spleepy
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Old 10-14-2008, 02:46 AM
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Pedro your good,, And have some time on your hands... Thanks for the info...
I predict 4,000 post in 1 year,,,lol...
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Old 10-14-2008, 09:04 AM
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Great idea for a thread Pedro!
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Old 10-19-2008, 06:33 AM
#6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ellebelle View Post
I could be wrong, but I believe Snowball is a purple and white urchin of a similar shape. I'll try and find a pic for you. I've seen her in person.
Hi ellebelle, LeslieS, everyone ;-)
So if it is a purple and white sea urchin, I believe it to be Salmacis bicolor (please be understanding with me as I'm still learning the common names used by many of you, since I use always scientific names for more identification accuracy), I checked both The Modern Coral Reef Aquarium, volume 4, page 351 ISBN 3-928819 -22 - 4 and made some search on Salmacis bicolor and found nothing of it being toxic, although its spines are very thin so one has to be careful to avoid injuries. Well I'm glad that I misidentified it both for the fact (at least I found nothing stating otherwise) that it is not venomous and it is a very beautiful animal, even if there are some reports of it showing an opportunistic feeding behavior ... which I believe could be triggered by insufficient food source, so the urchin in desperation to find food, turns to whatever it can get edible, even if it isn't its natural food.

Cheers
Pedro Nuno ;-)
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Zanclus canensces, cornutus, Kihikihi ou o zigzags always feed your Zanclus, Pomacanthus, Apolemichtys, Euxiphipops, all spongivores natural live sponge or try to, if you don't know how, see my article or ask me.
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Old 10-29-2008, 03:02 PM
#7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob 1000 View Post
Pedro your good,, And have some time on your hands... Thanks for the info...
I predict 4,000 post in 1 year,,,lol...
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathyC
Great idea for a thread Pedro!
Hi Bob 1000 ;-), Hi KathyC
Your both most kind...and Bob...4000 posts...I don't think so :-)...also there's far better and more knowledgeable people here in MR than me...and like many, I'm learning. Basically I share the little I know and try to help others with it, and try to learn as much as possible. ;-)

...well let's continue... and this time with the Cigarette snail, known to Science as Conus Geographus, although for that mater many cone snails have such a powerful venom that they can receive that nick name, but as there are many species I selected one, very venomous and known to have caused fatalities, as representative to present here at MR.

Conus geographus belongs to a wide group of marine gastropods of the family Conidae also designated by Cone snails

Of the many characteristics cone snails have, exquisite beauty and being very venomous are possibly the most know, with variations and some exceptions.

These snails are carnivorous and predatory, but also very slow, so the extremely powerful venom is the means to have success in getting food and it is also a weapon for defense, be it intentional or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wikipedia
Life habits

Cone snails are carnivorous, and predatory. They hunt and eat prey such as marine worms, small fish, mollusks, and even other cone snails. Because cone snails are slow-moving, they use a venomous harpoon (called a toxoglossan radula) in order to capture faster-moving prey such as fish. The venom of a few larger species is powerful enough to kill a human being.

[edit] Harpoon and venoms


An individual Conus pennaeus attacking one of a group of three snails of the species Cymatium nicobaricum in Hawaii




Cone snail use a harpoon-like structure for predation. Each of these harpoons is a modified tooth, primarily made of chitin. These teeth are formed inside the mouth of the snail, in a structure known as the radula. (The radula in most gastropods has rows of many small teeth, and is used for rasping at food and scraping it into the mouth.)
All cone snails are predatory. Small species of cone snails hunt small prey such as marine worms, whereas larger cone snails hunt fish.
The harpoon of the cone snail is hollow and barbed, and is attached to the tip of the radula inside the snail's throat. When the snail detects a prey animal nearby, it turns a long flexible tube called a proboscis - towards the prey. The harpoon is loaded with venom and, still attached to the radula, is fired from the proboscis into the prey by a powerful muscular contraction. The venom paralyzes small fish almost instantly. The snail then retracts the radula, drawing the subdued prey into the mouth. After the prey is digested, the cone snail will regurgitate any indigestible material such as spines and scales, along with the then disposable harpoon.
The tropical cone snail Conus purpurascens uses its special modified radular teeth to fire a retrievable hollow dart at small fish and injects a toxin. The toxin rapidly paralyses the fish, which the cone snail then swallows.[3]
All cone snail species are equipped with a battery of toxic harpoons which can fire in any direction, even backwards. Some of these toxins can be fatal to humans.[4]
The venom of cone snails contains hundreds of different compounds, and its exact composition varies widely from one species of cone snail to another. The toxins in these various venoms are called conotoxins. These are various peptides, each targeting a specific nerve channel or receptor. Some cone snail venoms also contain a pain-reducing toxin, which the snail uses to pacify the victim before immobilising and then killing it. Some cone snail venoms contain a tetrodotoxin, which is similar to the paralytic neurotoxins found in pufferfish, the blue-ringed octopus, and the Rough-skinned Newt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wikipedia
All cone snail species are equipped with a battery of toxic harpoons which can fire in any direction, even backwards. Some of these toxins can be fatal to humans.
As stated above, please see below this diorama of a Conus geographus that allows to show people the action safely and in slow motion

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8aprazOOvBA

The reason for Conus geographus being called the Cigarette snail, has to do with the fact that a Human being once stung with its very powerful venom, has about the time to smoke a cigarette before perishing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by National Geographic
Fast Facts

Type: Invertebrate
Diet: Carnivore
Size: 4 to 6 in (10 to 15 cm)
Did you know? The geographic cone is nicknamed the "cigarette snail," a humorous exaggeration meaning a person stung by one would have enough time to smoke a cigarette before dying.
Size relative to a tea cup:
Quote:
Relevance to humans


[edit] Risk of being stung


A live Textile cone, Conus textile, one of the three most dangerous cones to handle.


The bright colors and patterns of cone snails are attractive to the eye, and therefore people sometimes pick up the live animals and hold them in their hand for a while. This is risky, because the snail often fires its harpoon in these situations. In the case of the larger species of cone snail, the harpoon is sometimes capable of penetrating the skin even through gloves or wetsuits.
The "sting" of many of the smallest cone species may be no worse than that of a bee or hornet sting [1], but in the case of a few of the larger tropical fish-eating species, especially Conus geographus, Conus tulipa and Conus striatus, handling the snail can sometimes have fatal consequences. Other dangerous species are Conus pennaceus, Conus textile, Conus aulicus, Conus magus and Conus marmoreus [2]. According to Goldfrank's Toxicologic Emergencies, only about 15 deaths can be confidently attributed to cone snail envenomation. Most of the cone snails that hunt worms rather than fish are probably not a real risk to humans, with the possible exception of larger species such as Conus leopardus or Conus quercinus.
One of the fish-eating species, the geography cone, Conus geographus, is also known colloquially as the "cigarette snail," a humorous exaggeration implying that, when stung by this creature, the victim will have only enough time to smoke a cigarette before dying.[5][6]
Symptoms of a more serious cone snail sting include intense pain, swelling, numbness and tingling. Symptoms can start immediately or can be delayed in onset for days. Severe cases involve muscle paralysis, changes in vision and respiratory failure that can lead to death. There is no antivenom, and treatment involves providing life support until the venom is metabolised by the victim.
More about how they attack

http://youtube.com/watch?v=mtPVgW3rLqE

http://youtube.com/watch?v=xdmDuk3fnqc

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HrgkqImgSK4

http://youtube.com/watch?v=tWwebIIAQR4

Well cone snails are not that expensive and show up in live stock lists...but they can cost the life of a person...and should one think that by wearing gloves or a thick protection would be enough, well think again

Quote:
The bright colors and patterns of cone snails are attractive to the eye, and therefore people sometimes pick up the live animals and hold them in their hand for a while. This is risky, because the snail often fires its harpoon in these situations. In the case of the larger species of cone snail, the harpoon is sometimes capable of penetrating the skin even through gloves or wetsuits.
There is much more information about these snails both on the internet as well as Ronald L. Shimek Marine Invertebrates - ISBN 1-890087-66-1 - TFH - page 325

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conus snails
Hello there everyone, we the cone snails are very beautiful and also very slow, we need food to survive like you, but since we are slow and don't feed on algae, we have to hunt, so we have this powerful venom to immobilize our preys on the spot, otherwise we could loose them to other animals and would starve in consequence. We are not evil, but please do not let yourselves be tempted by our beauty, we don't mean you harm...but it is our nature


Again, this is not to scare or alarm, but to inform and prevention. Do remember that fortune favors the bold but not the unwary or even the uninformed.

Cheers
Pedro Nuno ;-)
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Zanclus canensces, cornutus, Kihikihi ou o zigzags always feed your Zanclus, Pomacanthus, Apolemichtys, Euxiphipops, all spongivores natural live sponge or try to, if you don't know how, see my article or ask me.
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Old 04-29-2009, 07:28 PM
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Here is a nice write up on venomous reef critters: Reefs Magazine
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Old 04-29-2009, 10:29 PM
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I have a One Spot Foxface in my tank, but I research all critters before I ever buy them. So, I knew to steer clear of the pointy parts of the fish. Other than that the only other contribution I can make is never underestimate the ability of a zoanthid or it's juice to kill you or your pets (i.e. cats and dogs). It makes puffer fish meat look like girl scout cookies.

BTW, there is some speculation that like poison dart frogs Rabbitfish are toxic thanks to what they eat...zoanthids.
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Last edited by cybermeez; 04-30-2009 at 01:10 AM..
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Old 04-30-2009, 01:01 AM
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Very cool and interesting thread~!
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