bubbles problem

[kasha]

so i know its not my skimmer because when i turn it off it doesnt change anything. i have a 90G with an external mag 9 pumping out of a full sump. i think there is a problem with the rate of return versus versus the overflow rate. it seems that the level of water in the overflow oscillates from being way above the pipe's holes too below so that air gets sucked in also down to the sump. here are some pics:

thanks

 

[NYreefNoob]

thats nothing to do with the bubbles, how many baffles before the return pump ? also id check all the return line to make sure it's snug, also it looks like the drain stand pipe is to high, cut the return pump down a little

 

[KathyC]

Not answering about your bubble issue, but why not just put the Mag Drive into the sump and close off that bulkhead? One less place to worry about a leak.
Some hose clamps would also be a good idea

 

[henrye718]

Is there a hole on the very top of your return pipe elbow?

If you dont you will have the water creating a siphon causing a very fast return flow. Then when it sucks down low enough to reach those smaller side holes the air being pulled in will break the siphon and it starts all over again causing the water level in the sump and tank to go up and down constantly. I am not sure of thats the sorce of you bubble tho but there should be a vent hole in the top of the elbow. It looks liek the two side holes are the vents once the water level reaches them.

 

[ecvernon]

put a valve on the mag 9.5. and tune down the flow rate.
a megaflow can accommodate about 600gph(if it has 1 inch bulkheads). at 950 gallons per hour it doesnt matter how many bubble baffles you have in the sump. the flow rate will be very high in the sump and the micro bubbles will ride the flow right back into your return line. .

on my old 90 gallon tank i had a mag 7 and a gate valve and had a little microbubble problem

also you may want to drill a anti siphon hole into your return line for added protection

 

[ecvernon]

oh yea kathyc is right. with that mag 9.5 and 1 return and drain line, you are taking a a risk with all of those fittings with no clamps

 

[kasha]

Is there a hole on the very top of your return pipe elbow?

If you dont you will have the water creating a siphon causing a very fast return flow. Then when it sucks down low enough to reach those smaller side holes the air being pulled in will break the siphon and it starts all over again causing the water level in the sump and tank to go up and down constantly. I am not sure of thats the sorce of you bubble tho but there should be a vent hole in the top of the elbow. It looks liek the two side holes are the vents once the water level reaches them.

there is a hole on top but it is small. when i put my finger on the hole the water level automatically goes down to the water holes.

the side holes are the vents because the hole on the elbow is too small, but would this be the source of the bubbles?

 

[ecvernon]

the hole on the tops is part of the standpipe that is not causing bubble problems. instead it helps stop gurgling noises. like durso stand pipes
http://www.dursostandpipes.com/?page_id=6

 

[kasha]

Not answering about your bubble issue, but why not just put the Mag Drive into the sump and close off that bulkhead? One less place to worry about a leak.
Some hose clamps would also be a good idea

kathy, do you think that the fact i dont have clamps might allow air to be sucked in? i mean the tubing is as tight on as i can get it but i do hear a small high pitched sound near the pump. i wonder if the clamps are necessary for an airtight seal or just for protection?

 

[NYreefNoob]

not clamping the hose's could be the problem also doesnt look like you have a real bulkhead on the sump thats connecting the pump, also with a mag i wouldnt use it as a out of sump pump

 

[kasha]

not clamping the hose's could be the problem also doesnt look like you have a real bulkhead on the sump thats connecting the pump, also with a mag i wouldnt use it as a out of sump pump

i'll get some clamps. what do you mean 'real bulkhead'? i have a bulkhead...

in terms of the mag being external. the instructions actually specify that it can be used like this. i didnt have room inside which is why its outside.

thanks

 

[KathyC]

kathy, do you think that the fact i dont have clamps might allow air to be sucked in? i mean the tubing is as tight on as i can get it but i do hear a small high pitched sound near the pump. i wonder if the clamps are necessary for an airtight seal or just for protection?

Yes, that is a possibility. That pump is pushing 950gph and it could be drawing in air where it is connected to that 1" hose. If so, it would appear as tiny bubbles. It could be happening at all/any of the connections where you don't have hose clamps. Adding them would be a good first step in figuring out where the issue is.

Clamps are necessary for both reasons you state
Is the towel under it because there is a minor leak?

This is the type of bulkhead that Rick (NYreefnoob) is asking why you don't have:


It is what is typically used on most reef tanks. I will admit I saw something similiar you what you have when I was looking for this pic. They called it a 'DIY bulkhead'.

I asked about putting the Mag 9 into the sump because they can also be used that way as they are fully submersible. You can add that strainer you have to the intake end and clamp your hose to the other (if you put it in the sump be sure to use a plastic hose clamp underwater!!)
It looks like there is plenty of space in your sump to accomodate the pump, but sometimes hard to tell from a picture!

 

[henrye718]

Try and spray some water around the areas where you think air could be getting sucked in. If it sucks in air it will pull the water too. Also an old mechanics trick, you can use a piece of hose to your ear and point the other end near an area to pinpoint noises. You might be able to hear the sucking.

 

[Killerdrgn]

I don't think this has been touched upon yet, but the koralia looks like it's really close enough to the surface to suck air into the tank.

 

[kasha]

I don't think this has been touched upon yet, but the koralia looks like it's really close enough to the surface to suck air into the tank.

I have the bubbles even when the koralia is off. Plus the bubbles are really microbubbles. I doubt the koralia could do that. But good thought, thanks.

 

[kasha]

Try and spray some water around the areas where you think air could be getting sucked in. If it sucks in air it will pull the water too. Also an old mechanics trick, you can use a piece of hose to your ear and point the other end near an area to pinpoint noises. You might be able to hear the sucking.

great idea!

 

[kasha]

great idea!

update:

i put 3 metal hose clamps over the 3 places where hoses are attached. no change in the bubbles or sound. i listened with a hose to try and zero in on where the air is being sucked in and it seems to be not anywhere along my connections but rather right on the body of the mag... if you look at my pictures you will see a black part attached to the body of the mag. right along that connection is where i hear the loudest sound. in fact i believe i saw some water that i dripped on that spot get sucked up...

so does this mean my mag is defective or should i empty out the last chamber in my sump, disassemble the mag and try to 'screw' on that part.

thanks everyone

 

[ecvernon]

if your where able to submerse the pump that wouldnt be an issue:scratchch

 

[henrye718]

if your where able to submerse the pump that wouldnt be an issue:scratchch

Pretty sure thats right, it will just suck the water into the crack or where ever the air is leaking instead if it were submersed.

I guess you detected a air leak around the area that is held tight together by the screws. Yeah, its basically acting like a power head air vent now if that the case and mixing water with air all the time. That sucks, pun intended :p .

I think the way you have everything mounted from your pictures is putting presure on that scewed on cover in alot of different directions causing it to pry open ever so slightly. I would snug up those screws and see if the leak will stop dont over do it its only plastic. And dont strip the scew heads incase you plan on returning the pump. Its very possible someone at the factory got sloppy on tightening the screws also.

Good luck..