jejton

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I have a really bad flatworm ( red planaria ) problem in my tank. No matter how many times I siphon, change the phosban, water changes, etc. it doesn't seem to get any better. I really want to avoid chemicals ( i.e. FWE ) because of the potential harm to other livestock and the general PITA of having to do a large WC ( i use 5 gallon HD buckets ) and hooking up a carbon reactor. I had a melanarus that died in QT but I'm not sure I should get another one as I think I've reached my stocking limit. What do you suggest?
Tank - 65 gallons + 20 gallons in the sump
Stock - 2 True Percs, 3 PJ cardinals, 2 black clown gobies, 2 nematodes gobies, 1 pink-spotted shrimp goby, 2 purple firefish, 1 cyaneo flasher wrasse ( just transferrred in the DT - originally thought he would eat flatworms but now read they dont ), some shrimp, crabs, snails and mixed corals.

FWE or a predator ( melanarus, dragonnette, etc ) ?
 

asianer

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I recently had a huge epidemic of Red Flatworms and tried the natural methods of Red Coris Wrasse, Mandarin Goby, Blue-stripe Nudibranch, and siphoning - fortunately the population got so large they couldn't sustain themselves and they all died. Unfortunately the toxins that they released when they died were so harmful they killed everything in my tank and turned the water a nice shade of orange. In retrospect I would have heeded everyones advice and dosed with FWE, but please make sure to siphon out the dead FW's as soon as you see them. Hope this helps!
 

jejton

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Ok thats what I thought.
Deanos - You know that hope is a powerful drug.

Now for FWE - how much of a water change do I need to do after dosing? How long do I wait after dosing until I do the water change? For how long should I run carbon? Any other precautions I should take ( such as removing certain fish or inverts to another tank ? )
 

masterswimmer

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The following directions might be long, but they worked impeccably for me.

GETTING RID OF FLATWORMS:
- Prepare enough RO/DI water to make enough saltwater for three 25% water changes within one week.

- Have a method for running carbon aggressively in your system. Running carbon passively in a filter bag in your sump is NOT considered aggressive. I am using an MRC Fluidized Media Chamber for carbon. A Phosban Reactor 150 will work fine also.

- The Flat Worm Exit is not toxic to your tanks inhabitants. However, like alrha mentioned above, the toxins released from the dead/dying FW's are toxic. With this in mind, it is better to add an overdose of FWE to your tank than to add too little.

- I have a 75 gallon tank, 15 fuge and about 10 gallons in my sump, for a total of ~ 100 gallons. I used five full bottles of FWE during the treatment on my system. I didn't use them all at once, but I did use them all during the one week of treatment.

Ok, time to get down to the nitty gritty of eliminating the dreaded FW.

- Three days before you are ready to treat your tank with the FWE, you must begin siphoning out as many FW's as possible manually. They do not grab hold of anything in your tank. They will release whatever slight grip they do have VERY easily. Take a siphon tube (vinyl tubing) and siphon one of two ways. Either attach a lady's nylons to the end of the tubing and put the nylons into your sump (to avoid discharging a lot of SW) or just siphon out the FW's into a drain or bucket. Just make sure you have even more than 3 days worth of 25% fresh SW to replace the siphoned out water.

The above step is extremely important. After you've siphoned out as many FW's as possible, take a powerhead and blow behind your aquascaping where you can't reach with the siphon tube. This will get the 'invisible' FW's out into the open for you to siphon them as well.

- The above step is now repeated for the next two days as well. So in total, you will have siphoned out FW's for three consecutive days.

- Day 4 is the moment of truth. You must turn OFF any carbon during the treatment. Have your 25% water change ready. Get a bottle of FWE.

- With your carbon off, squirt one full bottle of FWE into your tank, fuge and sump (most of it into your tank of course), remember, this is for a 100 gallon system.

- Within about 10-15 seconds you will begin to see a massive die off of FW's. Begin siphoning these dead/dying FW's out of the tank immediately.

- About 20 - 30 minutes after the first dose of FWE add another full bottle of FWE. Use a powerhead to blow into all the dead spots you possibly can. The FW's will be blowing all over your tank now. Keep siphoning them out.

- About 10 - 15 minutes after the second dose of FWE begin running your carbon.

- By now you will probably have siphoned out about 25% of your tanks water. Hopefully you will have siphoned out as many of the visible dead FW's as possible. You can now replace the siphoned out water with fresh SW.

- This treatment is to be repeated three days after you did the FWE the first time. The amount of FW die off on the second treatment will be almost zero if the first treatment was done following the directions explicitly.

- One week after the first treatment you should do the treatment one more time (only one dose should be necessary on the last day, not the two full bottles). Remember to turn off your carbon each time. Also remember to do 25% water changes on the third day and one week treatment even though you probably won't see any dead FW's. This is just to remove any possible dead FW's and to be totally sure all toxins are removed from the tank.

By this time your water should be FW free and crystal clear with all those water changes and carbon running.

Good luck and welcome to a FW free tank. :approve:

Russ
 

Pedro Nuno Ferreira

Liquid Breathing
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Hi

has explained already the flatworms upon dying will release a very powerful toxins which can (and will) wipe and whole tank, especially when present e large amounts, such as seems to be your case, so I suggest that you act progressively aided by the Cheilinodura varians - Blue-stripe Nudibranch. Start with two, and if you see that they are still not enough to deal with the population of flatworms, then you can add another one, but always keep a balance or you might end up with either more flatworms as they reproduce at a rate that the Chelinodura can not cope with, or the Chelinodura varians will to much and once the flatworms are over, they in turn could suffer. You must be patient and act progressively and should the population of flatworms be completely consumed by the Cheilinodura over the time, you can always sell then Cheilinodura to someone else in need of them...and that should not be difficult to find:D
By using the chemical at this stage, meaning a large population of flatworms, you could loose control of the situation should the chemical be very effective. Later in time when the flatworm population is significantly controlled, then maybe it could be a possibility after you sold then Cheilinodura, as the low population will have then little impact.

Cheers
Pedro Nuno;-)
 

jejton

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Suffolk
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Ok so I did 2 doses of FWE a couple days apart, with approximately 25% water changes each time. The WC SG was also higher than the DT's as I've been slowly upping the SG in DT. There has been a major improvement though I have still seen one or two flatworms so I'll be doing a third dose this week to finish them off. Most everything seems to have survived however I haven't seen one of my purple firefish since the 2nd dose and my red monti plate has had some tissue loss. Strangely, I had a massive die off of micro bristle stars during the second treatment. Has anyone experienced that before? I'm mostly upsed about the firefish as I've had them both since nearly the beginning and they appeared to be a pair so I dont know if I'll be able to introduce a new one. I'm hoping its just hiding in the rockwork as that has happened before.
 

masterswimmer

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I lost one feather duster. That was it. I had a lot of fish in the tank too.
Most people lose livestock from the toxins released after the FW's die, not because of adding the FWE to the tank.

Keep in mind you also said:

jejton said:
The WC SG was also higher than the DT's as I've been slowly upping the SG in DT.

So the increase in your SG changed your parameters. That could have had a negative effect on the fish and coral.

I wouldn't be surprised if your firefish turned up after hiding out for a few days.

swimmer
 

jejton

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Suffolk
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Russ - I figured it was the SG change or the toxins, not the FWE itself, but it was strange that I had such a large amount of microstars die ( and hopefully nothing else ). I forgot to check the overflow for the firefish and have had one of my clowns go there many times. I really like the fish and hope it turns up alive. As for the coral, I also don't think it was the FWE or the WC ( since none of the other corals had problems ) but rather the fact that I forgot to plug the ATO back in so I had a massive amount of air bubbles shoot directly onto this coral for a few hours until I got home and saw it.
 

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