Same old senario...

[Pinkheine]

There has been something I'd thought about the past several days when coming here to browse the threads and in light of the recent funk in the air regarding certain "redundant" questions asked... I thought to put it out there and get it out of my head... so here goes...

Many times the same questions are posted by newer members and also those that have been here a long while. Seeming as if those that have been posting and have some roots planted in the site get answers without snarky responses or none at all, yet others will slowly fade to the second page and so on.

My perspective on it is this:

We all have started somewhere. Many of us have asked some questions that may seem obvious to many and I for one know that when I found out the answer I was left feeling a bit foolish but still educated all the same.

Perfect example from myself... how foolish did I feel after thinking my hermit crab was dead when what I was staring at was a molt. :splitspin

I wouldn't consider myself a new/old member here, certainly not one of the original members and not anywhere close to an expert reef keeper at this point. Doubtful I'll ever be able to put the label expert on my reef keeping skills as this hobby changes very often and we all seem to get from point A to point B a bit differently.

I guess that is where I don't understand why answering what some may consider a redundant question again for someone is such a chore. The hobby changes. The way in which people do things changes. Frankly the search feature isn't really very user friendly (or idiot friendly-- often times me and the search feature are in a fight:tongue1 when it comes to finding the right information or not having a million and one threads to search with those "keywords" you have chosen.

I'd like to think that there is room here for the site to grow without anyone getting offended. Yes there is a certain degree of thick skin needed when posting on the internet in any forum. You aren't always going to like what you get in response and sometimes will have to use it as a spring board to research further on your own to find what works for you. Though having more members, more glass boxes in the community the more it benefits everyone... doesn't it?

I know that some people disregard the rules and I honestly don't even know if I am infringing on or breaking a rule someplace right now in posting this ramble of sorts. It is not my intention to get anyone angry or offended just to offer the perspective that thinking outside of the box is a great thing. The more opinions offered, imo, the better. Even when it comes to basic information that is easily accessible...

 

[Awibrandy]

Well said Sybil, could not have said it better myself! I have been thinking the same and was thinking of starting a thread myself regarding this subject. So Thank You......
I also see the same questions asked repeatedly and have answered some and some I just ignor and move on. Yes, I am guilty of ignoring some questions. I am human and sometimes I also get frustrated, but to be rude or nasty is not my game. Therefore I ignore.
I don't understand the need for "DRAMA" or for being nasty. Life is just to short for it. I much prefer to pass on love and encouragement.

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

Many times the same questions are posted by newer members and also those that have been here a long while. Seeming as if those that have been posting and have some roots planted in the site get answers without snarky responses or none at all, yet others will slowly fade to the second page and so on.
...

Frankly the search feature isn't really very user friendly (or idiot friendly-- often times me and the search feature are in a fight:tongue1 when it comes to finding the right information or not having a million and one threads to search with those "keywords" you have chosen.

I found exactly the same!!! HAHAHA I just saw one at the front page last night.

Friendlier wordings: networking
Comfrontational wordings: favoritism, preferential treatment and arrogance

I personally find that when you make friends here, anything goes including very wrong ones. I don't want to give examples because it will definitely offend some parties here.

So my suggestion to solve this issue is to improve the search engine, which I have suggested to MR couple years ago, and prominently(like this) suggest new members to use them. Then the more experienced advise givers will be less likely to be aggravated. Note: I don't say burdened because I think more experienced advise giver has no obligation to give advise and thus they can just ignore the ignorants. The so called stupid and redundant questions does not even cloud the site because the forum is clearly seperated and labelled "beginner forum." 99.99% of the questions asked in the beginner forum, the asker never ask directly to a particular member and the member need not answer any. It can be left to the ones who is willing and patiently answering them. In fact, they don't even have to go into that room. To me, this is personal attitude and manner issue.

A further note on the use of "Go Search"without a :tongue1:, "Google it" without a :tongue1: is like telling a beginner to read on your own and STAY OUT OF THIS SITE. Beginners means they know little about the topic and thus cannot even assume they know how to do Google right-at least I notice Deanos can find a lot more info than me Googling the same topic. Asking question is an instinct of children-beginners in this case. Therefore, the site owner should consider "Come, beginners" or "STAY OUT OF THIS SITE."

These beginner questions are very different from those that start with "MOD". When starting "MOD", the question is directed to a more specific party called the MOD, they can choose and also obligated to take appropriate actions.

 

[inkblue]

so many paRagraphs... it's like a bLog. i'll wait for the summaRy

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

so many paRagraphs... it's like a bLog. i'll wait for the summaRy

I probably should pay a little more for the usage of the space:tongue1:

Can't help, born windy.

 

[dreamingmarine]

I was just having this conversation with another member of the site yesterday.

Speaking only for myself, when I was first looking for info part of the problem with the search was the many conflicting opinions and advice in the threads. Now that I've been doing this for a while, I'm more comfortable with there being more than one way to solve problems and grow my tank. As a beginner, it felt intimidating, "oh no, if I don't breathe the right way I'm going to crash my tank."

So, I've spent most of the last year reading and researching quietly, but that isn't right for everyone.

Now I'm at a weird point where I feel like I could answer some beginner questions, but am far, far, far from being able to call myself an experienced reefer. This leaves me unsure of whether or not I should try to answer the questions of very beginners, kwim?

My tank is now 7 months old and doing great.

Sorry for being so long winded.

~Anne

 

[georgelc86]

The best part is when the "seasoned" reefer answers an ignored question by a beginner only to get knocked for the answer provided by a much more seasoned reefer.

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

The best part is when the "seasoned" reefer answers an ignored question by a beginner only to get knocked for the answer provided by a much more seasoned reefer.

lol

 

[prattreef]

I think there are several issues here:

First, I think in the main, questions here are answered in a timely, courteous and responsible manner. Snarky or rude comments are generally reserved for situations when advice has been repeatedly given and ignored-- still no excuse for rudeness, but a bit more understandable. Are there people who litter threads with nonsense? Of course there are, but that is the unfortunate nature of the beast.

Secondly, people don't read-- a sad but true fact. We spend A LOT of time and effort on developing resources like the magazine and databases and an amazingly small number of our members take advantage of them. The magazine in particular draws far more interest from people outside of our community than from our own members. I say this simply as an example of the untapped resources we do provide.

The matter of sifting through often conflicting and varied advice is indeed a problematic one for beginners, but it surely isn't unique to MR. The best way to counter this problem is to read and research independant of this or any on-line forum so you can ask informed questions and better evaluate the answers you receive.

Finally, I think members have little idea of the downright abuse Moderators take behind the scenes for simply doing their (unpaid) job which is to make decisions for the good of the community as a whole- decisions that at times might not please you as an individual. It is a thankless job, but one that is critical to keeping this site running day in and day out.

This is what it looks like from where I sit

 

[Pinkheine]

Finally, I think members have little idea of the downright abuse Moderators take behind the scenes for simply doing their (unpaid) job which is to make decisions for the good of the community as a whole- decisions that at times might not please you as an individual. It is a thankless job, but one that is critical to keeping this site running day in and day out.

That is a very true statement. Coming from a place where I've moderated a friends website with all of those members being 18+ years of age the amount of behavior that is juvenile at best, the emails, I could go on and on... is unreal. This by far was not meant to be a jab at the moderation of this site at all, it is very loosely moderated for the most part and at the same time I feel member opinions and suggestions at improving the site are often taken into consideration if not/also acted upon.

The level of frustration is often visible though. On both ends, general membership and moderators, that I think is discouraging. Expected to happen, maybe so. Afterall we're all only human. Though 3+ threads stemming from one instance is a bit much, on both ends of the spectrum.

I can honestly say that if we were just starting out now and came here, lurked (as we did then) I'd more than likely refrained from actively posting. I feel as if we were fortunate to find this site, to meet some of the great members here and share with everyone a hobby that is very much a way of life in our home, not just a hobby. I guess maybe I was just hoping to offer a bit of a perspective out of tolerance because lately I've felt discouraged by some of what I've seen put into text here. Guess I also should just let it roll off and move on. Beginning to think I should have just did this.. :tub: instead of starting a thread.

 

[dreamingmarine]

I think there are several issues here:


The matter of sifting through often conflicting and varied advice is indeed a problematic one for beginners, but it surely isn't unique to MR. The best way to counter this problem is to read and research independant of this or any on-line forum so you can ask informed questions and better evaluate the answers you receive.

This is what it looks like from where I sit

I know this is true, and did not in any way mean to imply this is specific to MR. On another (non reef related) site I belong to, a similar situation applies. It's sort of a natural progression there, nothing remotely official, once someone is involved in the community for a year or so most of the more experienced members step back from beginner questions and newer but not brand new members step up.

Pinkheine, I'm sorry you feel you shouldn't have started this thread, because I'm glad you did.

 

[Sean]

This is a hobby, meant to be enjoyed. This is why we spend so much of our "spare" time playing with our tanks. Sometimes a chore but should be an enjoyable one.

I don't pay any attention to crap from idiots and I hope others can see through the crappy advise and hurtful rants. A problem of coarse is with the beginner getting the crappy advise and blaming the MR community. People have to take a little responsibility for their actions. Whether it's in the form of bad advise or following it. Mods can't be responsible, that's just unfair.

I hate the politics, have been in the hobby/business a long time and have stayed clear of it all. My advice stay away from the BS before it consumes you as well.

 

[MatthewScars]

I've been going reefs for 2 years. this includes research time before i bought the tank.

I always use forum search, google, archive.reefcentral.com before I ask a questions. I just dont want to look stupid for being lazy and not researching.

I do get angry when people are lazy and dont do a simple search. The secrect: EVERY question you can possibly think of has been asked before. Not atleast TRYING to find it out yourself is lazy, and I have no issue being rude or sarcastic to someone that doesnt not try to solve an issue themselves. *BUT I dont express these feelings publicly often*

Human nature is to find the easiest way to a solution - which is asking someone else for the anwser. But, you need to research before you ask. It's fun to learn on your own.

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

I think the topic is shifting.

The main point of Pink is about same questions asked but response from the site members and moderators is different.

 

[MatthewScars]

Because there is no one way of doing anything in this hobby.

So you RESEARCH (see my above post) all the different ways to fix your issue, then you pick the best one for you and do it. Solved

You actually dont even need to ask the question if you search RC or google. crazy.

 

[Pinkheine]

Because there is no one way of doing anything in this hobby.

So you RESEARCH (see my above post) all the different ways to fix your issue, then you pick the best one for you and do it. Solved

You actually dont even need to ask the question if you search RC or google. crazy.

I totally understand that. Google, search other sites etc. I wasn't speaking of any of that. Just this site and the reaction that certain threads get. It can be discouraging. That was all I was trying to say. Personally I think no question is a stupid one.. because I've asked many stupid questions throughout my life, even after thinking I'd had a clue from doing research and come to a completely different conclusion with answers from others at a different time. IDK.. it is what it is. Nature of the beast.. or what have you. Nothing is perfect, nor anyone for that matter. I guess the point I was trying to make is moot. :sad2:

 

[MatthewScars]

How do I get rid of aptasia!? :inlove:

It's not moot! Thats why the forum has a beginners board.

 

[Awibrandy]

"The Only Stupid Question Is A Question NOT Asked"

Has anyone given any thought to the simple possibility that not everyone is as proficient at using a computer as your selfs?

My thing is this; If the question asked bothers/offends you then simply move on. You do not have to answer!!!!!!

George, don't feel bad. I was told by a person with about 5yrs. less in the hobby then I that I "should not give advice to newbies" insinuating that I didn't know what I was speaking of.LOL \

Pink, thank you for starting this thread.........................:hug:

 

[georgelc86]

Gotta love the know-it-all's Awi. Thanks Pink, TOTW material here.

 

[DCG1286]

"The Only Stupid Question Is A Question NOT Asked"

Has anyone given any thought to the simple possibility that not everyone is as proficient at using a computer as your selfs?

My thing is this; If the question asked bothers/offends you then simply move on. You do not have to answer!!!!!!

George, don't feel bad. I was told by a person with about 5yrs. less in the hobby then I that I "should not give advice to newbies" insinuating that I didn't know what I was speaking of.LOL \

Pink, thank you for starting this thread.........................:hug:

Simple and to the point!!! Thanks Awilda!