sea water questions?

[2slo4me]

so i have seen numerous salt water jugs being sold at LFS petco etc... Which one do you guys use. I have never used any sea water such as nutri water, petco salt water. I have always used Instant ocean salt and my ro-di... lol However this time around i would like to cycle my tank much faster by using natural sea water thats sold at pet stores...

all advice greatly appreciated...

also if anyone has used Dr.Tims nitrifying bacteria please chime in. I have used it once on a 55 gallon a while ago and it seemed to work but im not 100% sure. as for the 1st few fish i brought were pretty hardy clowns etc.

thanks again.

 

[KathyC]

I don't think that the water that is sold at Petco is actually 'natural' sea water. It's simply their brand of pre-mixed water..nothing more than you can do yourself at home and perhaps saves people with very small tanks from having to buy a rodi & mix the water themselves.

It certainly won't cycle a tank any faster.

As far as Dr. Tim's nitrifying bacteria -I've seen that advertised in the Dr's F & S catalog but haven't purchased.
I just started cycling a new tank and am trying the Microbe-lift products to see if they make any difference in the cycle. They have a couple including Nite-Out II and Special Blend. (I got them at MACNA)

No idea yet if they shave a little of the time off the original cycle, but I wouldn't expect more than that.

 

[2slo4me]

I don't think that the water that is sold at Petco is actually 'natural' sea water. It's simply their brand of pre-mixed water..nothing more than you can do yourself at home and perhaps saves people with very small tanks from having to buy a rodi & mix the water themselves.

It certainly won't cycle a tank any faster.

As far as Dr. Tim's nitrifying bacteria -I've seen that advertised in the Dr's F & S catalog but haven't purchased.
I just started cycling a new tank and am trying the Microbe-lift products to see if they make any difference in the cycle. They have a couple including Nite-Out II and Special Blend. (I got them at MACNA)

No idea yet if they shave a little of the time off the original cycle, but I wouldn't expect more than that.

thanks for the info. a vendor here told me that petco water is natural sea water just filtered. didnt make sense. but he said he has used it time and time again and didnt need to cycle it. i dunno. im gonna go the old fashion way. lol ro-di plus IO ... and ill try the dr.tims out and let you know how it works out. thansk again.

 

[KathyC]

Interesting, doesn't seem very profitable for them to me...I know Atlantis Marine World uses natural sea water but it's weeks before it is ready to go in their tanks between killing off the parasites, running it through a UV and filtering out the local crud. Doesn't seem cost effective for Petco to go through all that..considering how poorly they take care of anything in their tanks

I know Chief has used the stuff, I will ask him to take a look at this thread and post some info

 

[2slo4me]

Thanks Kathy. o Yea i didnt mean in his or her store. I meant in there personal tanks. How about nutri sea water? anyone ever use that?

 

[Quang]

I've used the "sea water" from Petco and according to the salesperson, it's Catalina's seawater. It's just packaged for Petco as so, and I verified that with a person at Catalina (http://www.catalinawater.com/Product.html).

I've used it with no ill effects. The salinity is a little high and calcium/alk is low. Like Kathy said, it won't speed up your cycle. I only see the benefit in using this water for nano reefers.

 

[2slo4me]

Thanks for the info....

 

[CHEMCHEF]

I use Petco water with good results. It is Natural sea water..

 

[MikeyZO]

Ive used petco's also, and I believe its the only thing Chief uses. And I think it is natural sea water.

 

[jackson6745]

I never used the natural seawater before. What benefits could one expect (actually see) compared to using artificially made saltwater?

 

[Alfredo De La Fe]

There really is no reason to "cycle" a reef tank. The only "cycle" that exists is curing of liverock. If the system is properly set up there should not be any "cycling" involved. The days of sacrificing a damsel and/or molly are over. ;-)

The benefits of natural sea water are simple- no one has been able to perfectly duplicate nature. While Instant Ocean is good and perfectly acceptable as far as synthetic salt mixes go, nothing will compare to the real thing.

Alfred

 

[tosiek]

There really is no reason to "cycle" a reef tank. The only "cycle" that exists is curing of liverock. If the system is properly set up there should not be any "cycling" involved. The days of sacrificing a damsel and/or molly are over. ;-)

The benefits of natural sea water are simple- no one has been able to perfectly duplicate nature. While Instant Ocean is good and perfectly acceptable as far as synthetic salt mixes go, nothing will compare to the real thing.

Alfred

There is always cycling involved in setting up a new tank, and even adding large quantities of new "cured" LR into an established tank, or adding alot of fish at once, or changing out your deep sand bed for a new one. Maybe not one that your going to get 2 days of ammonia filled tank water that will kill everything in the tank kinda cycle, but a cycle none the less one way or the other. If you notice it or how quick the tanks bacterial population readjusts and if your livestock is affected is another story. And cured rock isn't quite stable. With no new food source the bacteria just die off, then eat the dead bacteria/bacteria poo, and repeat that cycle untill you throw it into your tank and give it more room to spread and a food source from feedings and fish poo. Only then does it stabilize with a continuous new food source. Theres alot of junk in cured rock and the skimmer during the curing process is pulling something out, and its not fish poo.

The only way that you can set up a almost fully "cured" and stable tank is using established rock from a running system as well as a complete sand bed from that tank. Even then your getting a mini cycle as the bacteria adjust and clean up any bacteria that died. The bacteria addatives that are on the market just cut out some of the growth stage of the bacteria as they fluctuate to take care of all the extra food in the tank, in return giving a quicker shorter cycle most times and giving a good semi stable bacteria base to work with when adding livestock.

And using natural sea water does have benefits as far as maybe nutrients or something missing from premixed. But it also has alot of seawaters pollutants and bacteria and microorganisms, or dead ones in the water. Can't filter those out as easily. The petco water i got did have a warning label saying that the water can cause the tank to cycle due to bacteria that might have died off in the water with a expiration date on it as well.

Salt mix + RO/DI is a cleaner version :tub:

 

[TRIGGERMAN]

I def agree..RO-DI + salt mix..no outside bacteria,no worries

 

[Alfredo De La Fe]

Ron Shimek did a study a while back that compared synthetic salt mixes to natural sea water (he used Catalina). While I do not agree with most of his "toxic tank syndrome" theories, the results from his study certainly do speak for themselves:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-03/rs/feature/index.php

There is a difference between buying "cured" rock and curing it yourself. If you cure it yourself (or buy "cured" rock and let it cure) then there is NO reason to cycle a tank. Second, all bacteria does NOT die when rock is cured, if anything, there tends to be more bacteria immediately after rock has cured. In fact, every time you increase the bio load in your aquarium significantly an "adjustment" takes place as far as bacteria. This is not "curing".

Alfred

 

[2slo4me]

hmm interesting thanks. time to read. lol

 

[Chiefmcfuz]

Wow, I am at a position to help out because I have used each of the seawater products on the market to date. I remember logging which water was better for growth and other important tests that are important to reefing. :scratchch Oh well.

 

[jackson6745]

Wow, I am at a position to help out because I have used each of the seawater products on the market to date. I remember logging which water was better for growth and other important tests that are important to reefing. :scratchch Oh well.

:tongue1::tongue1::tongue1::tongue1:

 

[2slo4me]

Wow, I am at a position to help out because I have used each of the seawater products on the market to date. I remember logging which water was better for growth and other important tests that are important to reefing. :scratchch Oh well.

so are you gonna help out or maybe post your logs? or is that ur lil secret? :shhh:

 

[Alfredo De La Fe]

I figured I would expand a bit on what I wrote above.

The process of "curing" live rock is essentially letting all of the organisms that have died or are about to die on the rock "rot" away. When you buy "cured" rock, they have basically done this for you and all of the larger stuff (sponges, worms, crabs, algae, etc.) but in transit additional things "die".

There are a few schools of thought when it comes to curing. Some people just let the rock sit in a tub with a powerhead, while others perform large water changes and run carbon and skimmers. I prefer the later. That way you minimize what will die off that would not have died off if you allowed a rotten soup to develop.

Now, every time you move rock around or transport it, stuff basically dies. (sponges are very delicate), but for the most part, a reef tank can handle a brief spike in bioload and you dont even feel it.

Curing a tank is an older term used for the process of establishing nitrifying bacteria. This is not an issue in our reef tanks, because the rock and live sand are loaded with it.

Concerning Shimek's "theory" on toxic tank syndrome... He basically has said that after several years we should just throw our live rock away and start fresh because all of the high levels of metals and other toxic substances which are in much higher concentrations in our reef systems are absorbed by the rock. I dont agree with this. If you read the interview with Terry Siegel, he brings up a valid point- that is, that in established tanks with excellent growth, the circulation is "compromised" [my word] and ditritus, etc, are not easily exported from our systems. Take that same live rock and put it in a new system and you have a thriving reef tank for a few years.

My opinion is that Instant Ocean is a great alternative to Natural Sea Water. But if NSW is available, quite frankly, no one has yet to improve on God's recipe/formula...

Alfred

 

[tosiek]

Ron Shimek did a study a while back that compared synthetic salt mixes to natural sea water (he used Catalina). While I do not agree with most of his "toxic tank syndrome" theories, the results from his study certainly do speak for themselves:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-03/rs/feature/index.php

There is a difference between buying "cured" rock and curing it yourself. If you cure it yourself (or buy "cured" rock and let it cure) then there is NO reason to cycle a tank. Second, all bacteria does NOT die when rock is cured, if anything, there tends to be more bacteria immediately after rock has cured. In fact, every time you increase the bio load in your aquarium significantly an "adjustment" takes place as far as bacteria. This is not "curing".

Alfred

Thats a great article to read. Interesting to see the amounts of metals in the water compared to NSW.

Im reading your first comments all wrong. It read like "the tank is fully cycled and ready to go" and missing out the tank adjustments and stuff thats important when going through the next steps of adding livestock, how slow, ect. Alot of new people will read the first comments and think they can fully stock a tank the same day they add the cured LR which is what i tried to explain. Wasn't aimed at you Alfredo.