It's good to be home.

[ShaunW]

I did something that I never thought possible today .

I almost got kicked off of reefcentral, for me it is a mortifying thing (since I love that site)!!!

Start:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=518394&perpage=25&pagenumber=2
and if your bored, end:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=518394&perpage=25&pagenumber=7

That will teach me for talking to strangers .

Anyway, Manhattanreefs sure feels like home right about now!

[ February 09, 2005, 12:28 AM: Message edited by: solbby ]

 

[marrone]

Don't you know RC doesn't like people talking bad about their sponsers or companies that could be their sponsers.

It also seems very recently RC has been stepping in and stop some of the threads that really get personnal. I think alot of people have stay away from RC because of these personnal type threads that really do get out of hand. Unfortunily they seem to stop the one where people are quesiting products or vendors, which should be allowed so people know what and who they're dealing with.

 

[ShaunW]

The funny thing is, I was defending their sponser!!

[ February 09, 2005, 01:31 AM: Message edited by: solbby ]

 

[marrone]

The thing is they're so stupid over to even know that you were on the sponser side and just jump on you because of what you said about one of the people on RC, even if it was just a joke. They probably felt the thread was getting out of hand, even if it wasn't.

I bet they're getting feedback from their sponsers about some of the things being posted, even though if you asked them they'll tell you they could care less about them. Also the climate at RC is pretty bad and does turn off alot of people.

 

[House of Laughter]

I thought this was a nuetral approach, which I believe to be true by the readings and position. Man that is one long A** string. Not to mention. . . . . .

MR.com has the best moderator in SOLBBY

And that was some serious empirical evidence

House

 

[ShaunW]

THANKS JIM!! .

I was afraid I may have jeopardized my job, .

 

[House of Laughter]

No way, that was awesome. People need to learn the difference between affirmation and aggression -

Glad we have you

Jim

 

[jackson6745]

Shaun, I quickly skimmed through that thread, I have to go back and read it more closely. Is zeobak the supplement that smells like vinegar?
Also, I'm surprised that you got such a high PH reading from the zeobak (6.87 I think) A few guys dipped their PH probes in the stuff and got a ph of 4.6....I don't know how accurate that would be though?

PS Don't pay any mind to GregT. He can be a real jerk sometimes, especially when zeo is mentioned. We have much better moderators here

 

[ShaunW]

Rich,
Zeobak is the bacterial component of the system. At a pH of 6.87, which is a neutral pH, it would hold bacteria for storage quite well.

I am not sure which part smells like vinegar (not the zeobak contents) but a pH of 4.6 would be about right for an acidic compound.

Originally posted by jackson6745:
PS Don't pay any mind to GregT. He can be a real jerk sometimes, especially when zeo is mentioned. We have much better moderators here

He totally squashed the interesting scientific discussion that we were having. Now I've completely lost interest, since if I can't defend myself (obviously in a kind manner) what's the point of being involved.

 

[ShaunW]

As we have discussed already, you know where I stand on the whole BB vs. Zeo debate, , and Bomber does too!

 

[MrAnderson]

Well if it's any comfort I got a warning in the thread as well. I also got some weird PMs during tha schism.

I agree that the discussion got squashed before it got interesting, and before anything even really happened. I've been a lurker at RC for months now, and was surprised at how Bomber and gregt reacted. I thought the whole thing was pretty civil, overall... until Bomber showed up.

PLEASE let me know if I say too much or if I'm out of line. Also, feel free to edit this post - I've seen warring boards and it wasn't pretty; I don't want to start off on the wrong foot here.

 

[ShaunW]

MrAnderson (I kinda liked JakStat, was/is a cool handle!!), actually I have continued to do some more experiments and have new data that I am not going to reveal on RC.

The 10e6 bacteria are only one organism (Pseudomonas sp.), since I got that number from colony counts on LB agar. Actually alot of the morphological species present in the wet prep are not accounted for on the plate. So as predicted different media is required. I am thinking about going the next step which is instituting marine micro techniques to the sample. What do you think of taking my tank water, sterilizing it through a 0.22 micron filter, adding agar, and plating out the zeobak on the media? I would think that something should grow and that it would answer the question if the bacteria can replicate in a reef tank environment.

[ February 09, 2005, 04:28 PM: Message edited by: solbby ]

 

[MrAnderson]

LOL!

I picked JakStat as a goof when I first signed up on RC. MrAnderson is my username on nanoreef and saltcreep (avoid saltcreep), and what I've gotten used to, so I figured I'd go with that. Sorry for the schizo.

This reminds me of when I had to make custom media for some plant research I did a long time ago. I ended up filtering coconut milk and all sorts of witch-brew craziness for my custom media.

But I like it!! I think your approach would probably work to some degree. One thing that we just don't have a resource for is marine microbiology literature. When I was doing the plant work I sorted through all sorts of one-off custom media, and settled on one recipe that was closest to my needs. If you could find some literature with similar methods it could save you a lot of troubleshooting. Maybe you could order the media? Some media companies have some crazy stuff buried in their catalogs.

But the reason I like your approach is that it replicates the tank environment closely. Agar plates should work. You could also try just using the filter-sterilized water as a broth medium as well. Then maybe streak plates every day until it gets turbid or something, so you don't miss anything that might get "competed down".

This is cool. RC is missing out (too busy "moderating").

 

[ShaunW]

The problem with broth as I see it

, is depending on my tank conditions one species may out compete another, i.e. if I have too much inorganic phosphate vs. not that much nitrate. Since it will be one big soup mix, so to speak. On a plate they will be isolated and therefore not compete within their individual microenvironment. The only downside that I see is that I may not have enough nutrients present within my water column to allow them to grow (but I may be deluding myself as to the "high" quality of my water quality, ).

 

[MrAnderson]

Yeah I agree, it could be problematic. Even though I was suggesting the daily sample/streak to get around that, that sampling could end up causing more probalems than it solves. The plates should work just fine in my estimation. You may have to squint really hard to find all the colonies though!

Sounds good!! Try it out ... yesterday (do I sound like a PI [I'm not]? Or are you a PI [oooops!]?). Just kidding, I can't wait to see how this works. I love doing stuff like this - if only I had access to a lab...

 

[ShaunW]

Originally posted by MrAnderson:
I love doing stuff like this - if only I had access to a lab...

ME TOO!! Which is why I got into this whole mess in the first place. I don't have Zeovit on my tank, but I have become a "champion" for Zeovit. Go figure?

In my original microscopic pictures, I think the "gram negative" bacillus is the Pseudomonas sp.. If you look closely the cocci, and small rods are unaccounted for. These are most likely the marine microorganisms. Additionally, those organisms are at a higher density than the Pseudomonas sp., meaning their colony counts could be in the 10e7 range.

 

[MrAnderson]

you know, it really gets me how this was just chalked up to contamination...

As for the champion bit, it's cracking me up too. I have no idea about Zeo or how it works or implemented. But you don't really need to for that conversation. It all really just boiled down to Micro 101.

I also wish I knew how Zeo was prepared/packaged/manufactured. I can't see it being made in the guy's basement...

 

[ShaunW]

Originally posted by MrAnderson:
you know, it really gets me how this was just chalked up to contamination...

Talk about biased!! I would be the first to agree if it was contamination, which really would have presented itself as: multiple species of terestial microorganisms on the LB plate (it would be quite an achievement to contaminate it with marine organisms in a terestial micro. facility). But, since it is only one species, and the others are not able to grow on LB (just as one would have predicted of chemolithotrophs), contamination is even less likely. What I am seeing is exactly what one would expect to see of such a product.

Bomber real argument lies in the following question I presented: Are the bacteria able to colonize and replicate in the aquarium environment? I don't understand why he didn't pick up on my "hints". That would have been one cool debate, that I would have loved to participate in,

.

 

[MrAnderson]

You know, it's probably better that you didn't post these next results on RC. I have no doubt that the Pseudomonas would be called contamination by *ahem*.

Although they are a common waterborne genus, the particular Pseudomonas in this instance could be an interesting marine strain (if there is such a thing as interesting Pseudomonas) that fits into the biochemical "scheme of things" for Zeo. I can just picture the mayhem that would ensue if you posted this on RC.

All you can do is report what you find and leave the negativity for the trolls. Besides, it's a nice "scoop" for manhattanreefs.com !

 

[ShaunW]

Check out -
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=510427&perpage=25&highlight=pseudomonas&pagenumber=29

Center of the page!! Most intelligent thing said in the entire debate.

Originally quoted by Hawkdl2 on reefcentral.
"The other two are cleaver choices indeed. Parococcus denitirificans and Pseudomonas sterizi are both easy to grow strain of bacteria that are used, and still being developed, to detoxify environments or harsh waste streams (like water that flows from steel factories). I would think these would be classified at heterotrophs (i.e. they can utilize various carbon sources for energy). P. denitrificans is particularly interesting in that is one of the few characterized bacteria that can not only convert ammonia to nitrite, but can also convert nitrite to nitrate ? very interesting bacteria. I?m not sure if P. sterizi is also so multifunctional, but given its adaptability and genus diversity, I would not be surprised. "

I am sure what I am looking at on the LB plate is Pseudomonas sterizi !!! at 10e6 CFU/mL.

[ February 09, 2005, 06:46 PM: Message edited by: solbby ]