Need advice for a return pump

[jackson6745]

I am trying to decide on an external return pump (pressure rated) 1100-1500GPH. The pump must be pressure rated because I plan on using penductors and want to get the most flow possible from them.

Keep in mind noise, heat, and wattage.
Right now I am considering the GENX PCX-55HP which pumps 1140GPH, at 170watts for $140. I heard they may be noisy though? Any input to help me make a decision is appreciated.

 

[LiquidBlues]

haha you probably know more than me jackson

but
on my research on reefcentral.com
people in the MRC club told me for the 180G tank its 1200GPH from the teeth of the overflows
so they recommended me to get the PCX-100 (1500GPH) which is what i'm getting...

 

[jackson6745]

Liquid, I don't have much experience with external pumps so you probably know more than me

The Blueline Velocity T4 also seems like a good choice but I hear they run hot? The T4 runs
1225 gph @ 3' head
140W
and costs $30 more. I think the Genx may give me more flow at a 4' head?

 

[bad coffee]

http://reefs.org/library/pumps/

All kinds of good info!

BC

 

[jackson6745]

Awesome info thanks BC!

 

[LiquidBlues]

hey jackson... when are you going to get your system started?

also where are you getting the protein skimmer and return pump?

 

[Vic8361]

Hey jackson if your going to run penductors I would go with the GRI 520 of iwaki 55rlt or 70 rlt.
The gri is much more quiet then the Iwaki. I have a gri 520 and it rocks.

I have been considering buy the penductors but find then realy big I heard of someone on RC the cut them down a bit and seem to still work pretty good. LMK how they work out when you get them running.
here's a link
http://www.kthsales.com/website/Misc/hello_salt_water_enthusiasts.htm

Vic

[ February 23, 2005, 02:43 PM: Message edited by: Vic8361 ]

 

[LiquidBlues]

what is that ?

 

[jackson6745]

Liquid, i'll have the tank on March 5th so I hope to be able to get the plumbing and electrical started the same day. I bought an MR-2 skimmer (used)with the PCx55 pump, I actually just recieved it today so I'll play around with the pump and decide if I want it as a return also. The eductors multiply the output of your pump with no extra electricity. They're a great way to increase flow cheaply. If you do a search on RC for "penductor" you will find a thread with a few videos showing how well they work.

Vic where can I find a GRI pump? The eductors are pretty big (4.5") but the penductors are about 3-3 1/2" so its not that bad. I know iwakis have a good reputation but they use soooo much electricity and are very expensive. Do you think the extra money to buy and run them is worth it compared to cheaper pressure pumps like the Genx or veleocity?

thanks,
Rich

[ February 23, 2005, 08:24 PM: Message edited by: jackson6745 ]

 

[LiquidBlues]

keep me posted on how things work out with the MR-2 man

 

[Vic8361]

the genx and t-4 won't give you the presure you need I own both of them. Champion lighting sells the GRIs but the price is a bit high but worth it. The iwakis make more noise then the GRIs and use more electricity. I have heard good things about the sequence presure rated pumps but have no expierence with them. Where could I get the penductors from would like to give it a try. I am running a GRI 520 for my retutrn so I would like to add these.

Vic

[ February 23, 2005, 05:28 PM: Message edited by: Vic8361 ]

 

[jackson6745]

Vic on the bottom of the link you posted you can email Ken for a purchase. Thanks for the advice

 

[loismustdie]

Dolphin amp masters aren't pressure rated, but some back pressure is good for them and the will adjust amps accordingly with the allowed flow. Sequence pumps are great and can handle good head pressure. Other than that, I guess iwakis. Pressure rated iwakis burn a lot of juice for the GPH IMO. If you go with sequence, you'll probably need a bleeder line back to your sump to reduce some flow. They are strong. My sequence hammerhead is pumping 14 feet and the flow in my reef was too high... had to put in a bleeder line.

 

[Vic8361]

oh I see they make one in a smaller profile.
Thanks.
Vic

 

[jackson6745]

Chris, whats a bleeder line? Can't you just use a ball valve to restrict flow?

 

[Melt]

rich I told you the Velocity T4 .i am so happy with it ,you don't even know if it's on..feel free to stop by and look at mines

 

[LiquidBlues]

i see jackson... great stuff for 25 bucks
just wondering tho... whats the difference between the penductor and educator ?

 

[loismustdie]

Going with just a ball valve will put unnecessary strain on the pump. I know this sounds like a lot of equipment, but it's just the way I like to go. Keep a ballvalve on your return line so you can shut it down when you need to. Tee another line going back into your sump with another ballvalve. You can adjust this valve to get the flow you want. If you're forcing too much water through the penductor, you can open up the ballvalve on the bleeder a little bit to reduce it. You can feed other equipment with this line like I do (chiller, carbon chamber). I don't know what a penductor is... I'm assuming it's one of those wave devices. IMO, that stuff is way overrated. A good return pump and a good closed loop will do just fine. We shouldn't have to spend a ton of money to have a successful tank. You can also forget the bleeder line and use the tee to feed another return for the tank. Damn jackson, I wish I wasn't so short on time. I got a dolphin 2100 amp master I could lend you to see if it works out and you can check out my plumbing. 4Angel, NYFireman and a couple of others have been to my house and saw my plumbing. I admit, it is overkill, but versatile. Jackson, I'll take pics and e-mail you. I don't know how to put pics here on the forum. I wish I was able to explain this better, but I'm not the smartest guy in the world. It would be easier for you to see. My advice to you would be get the Sequence Dart. Silent, energy efficient. More than enough flow. I'll get the pics off to you.
chris

 

[LiquidBlues]

hey chris
I'm going for 180G as well

I'm planning to do GEN PCX-55 with MR2 PS
and then the return as PCX-100 (i was told the 55 would work as the return pump)

but before that I was planning to do the Squence Dart... and split the 3500GPH for the PS and the Return... what you think ?

 

[loismustdie]

I went with the hammerhead for my 180. I was NOT expecting the water flow I got at 14 feet of head pressure. My hammerhead is on the floor in my basement and my tank is in my 1st floor living room. I ended up splicing into the return line and fed 1 skimmer, 1 carbon chamber, both of my chillers (one is the DIY one I posted which gets very little flow) and I still needed a bleeder to just dump water in my sump. Sequence are top notch in my book. 5800 gph, 300 watts and is cool to the touch. The hammerhead is not much louder than my dolphin 2100, but it is in my basement where noise is of no concern. The smaller models are silent. I sent Jackson what I feel is a very descriptive look at my rigging. Pics as well. I'm not saying my way is the right way, or the best way. This came about because of the blackout. Almost everything in my tank died. 1 pump now handles waterflow/oxygenation, skimming and cooling. Look at the DIY chiller I posted, that's why I put it out there. I pulg the pump into my power inverter and it goes. Liquidblues... I think it is a bad idea to run a skimmer without a dedicated pump. I did so because I have an ETSS skimmer that was ran off of a RIO 3100. As everyone here knows... RIO products are CRAP. The performance of the skimmer was pitiful at best. I figured, "what do I have to loose". Rigging was simple, but ALL steps in the rigging must be taken. I would not daisy chain a skimmer to a circulation pump unless it is a downdraft style skimmer. Liquid, please PM me your e-mail and I will try to forward to you what I sent to Jackson. I listed pros and cons of my set up. Liquid, If you splice your returns right, the dart will be perfect. I put a ton of planning into the design of my tank. The guy who actually built the tank itself wanted to kill me. It works great though and handles anything I throw at it. No powerheads and only 1 submersible pump on my second skimmer. I knocked 4 pumps off my system with this set up and I'm no longer petrified of the power going out. One plug handles what you need to get by until the power comes back on. I'll try to forward my e-mail that I sent Jackson to anyone else interested. Jackson, I'd appreciate it if you can forward it as well. Constructive criticism is welcome and usually helpful. I hope this helps anyone out whos starting up or remodeling.
chris