Need advice for a return pump

[alrha]

i have the BlueLine70RLT, i have it restricted by a ball valve to lower the flow (too stong for my one overflow). I would eventually sell it for a more appropriate pump. the other issue i have is that it runs on a hum, and in my living room, i would prefer a totally silent pump.

 

[loismustdie]

Restricting the flow with a ball valve is probably contributing to the hum. More strain on the pump. Working harder to put out less flow. My blueline has no restriction, but there is still a little vibration noise. Not enough that it is noticable. I just wanted to add in that my set up can be siplified (A LOT) to suit one's needs. It would still work placed in the stand. Liquid, a little word of advice. I had my stand built 36" tall as opposed to the standard 32". This gave me a lot of room to play when my sump was in the stand. If maintenance is easy, we're more likely to do it. I think they charged me an extra $20. Now that my sump is in the basement, this is no longer an issue. Albert, I'm pretty sure you've tried this, but you can also put padding under your pump. I cut peices of playground flooring from HD. This did a lot to stop vibration noises.

 

[loismustdie]

I guess I should also add a little FYI even though I will be contradicting myself. I said above that a skimmer should be ran on a dedicated pump. I sent e-mails to Bob Goemans and Anthony Calfo. Both of them told me that I was going to go nuts trying to get it adjusted and it probably won't work. The staff at champion lighting said the same. The ETSS skimmer really wasn't doing much when it was set up with the RIO. That's where my "what do I have to loose" attitude kicked in. I was going to buy a Hammerhead anyway. If I still couldn't get the ETSS to work well, I was just going to get rid of it and get a new one with a dedicated pump. It took me 2 DAYS to get it properly adjusted. I've since been very impressed with it's performance. I'm very happy with it. No plans for a change. I have not spoken to the above mentioned professionals about my success with this yet. I'm pretty sure that as the system gets older it will need occassional tweeking. I will still say that a dedicated pump is best for a skimmer, but it has so far worked for me on a bleeder. ETSS are downdraft skimmers.

 

[LiquidBlues]

hey chris..
it would be great if you can send some pics on your setup to [email protected]

 

[jackson6745]

Chris, let me start by thanking you for all your input

as well as everyone else also.

Here is a pic of Chris's 180G reef....VERY nice!

[ February 24, 2005, 09:46 PM: Message edited by: jackson6745 ]

 

[jackson6745]

Eductors

This link has videos showing comparasions between eductors, penductors, and just normal return......for you non believers

PS a penductor is like a smaller eductor.

[ February 24, 2005, 10:38 PM: Message edited by: jackson6745 ]

 

[jackson6745]

Chris, I decided against a closed loop (using tunze streams) for my new 120 because:
1) I'm scared of crazy plumbing
2) In the event of a power outage I can simply run a 45w tunze stream on a battery backup much longer than a 200+W return pump.
3) Over the course of a year or 2 pipes can really calcify a lot and reduced flow causing a need to replace pipes over time......meaning more scary plumbing
4)Also, the tunze streams will give me over 6000GPH for a total of 90w!!!!! Which will put less heat in the water and save money in electricity (although the inital cost is high)


I understand what you'r saying about the bleed off and it makes a lot of sense. My overflow will only be able to handle 1500GPH so going with a stronger pump will be wasted energy. I checked out the sequence dart and it is a low pressure pump. The eductors will back this pump down quite a bit. Seems that this is a great choice for a closed loop pump though.

 

[jackson6745]

Liquid, I plumbed the MR2 to a rubbermaid container for now (with Psuedo boy's help )to "cook" some rock. The PCX55 pump does make a humming noise and seems to add heat to the water. I have about 20gals of water in the rubbermaid and the temp is holding at 82 degrees with no heater in a cold spare room. I'm not sure if I want to use this for a return pump. Vic I'm seriously considering the GRI pump. I read very good things about this pump and I think it would be worth the extra $$. I'm gonna call you so we can talk about it

 

[LiquidBlues]

yikes... i really don't want to get a chiller
is this the one your talkin about ?
http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=GR1115

 

[LiquidBlues]

oh what you mean by the sequence dart is a low pressure pump?

 

[jackson6745]

Liquid...lol. No way am I spending that much for a return pump. I was talking about the smaller models.
here

I meant the sequence dart is not pressure rated. Eventhough it cranks at 0' head at 5' a much lower GPH pressure rated pump will compete or beat it.

 

[loismustdie]

Jackson,
thanks for the little pointers. I like the idea of maybe using filter pads in the sump rather than rock. This will probably knock down on bubbles in my display, even though there are only a few. I hate bubbles, no matter how few. The skimmers were newbie mistakes that I've acquired over the years of upgrading. I just haven't had the cash to pick up a new one. I love DIY projects as well, but I do more bells and whistles... I leave the absolutely necessary equipment to the pros. I still love my Berlin. Low budget, easy to set up and has worked great from day one. Pain to get it clean though and there are much better skimmers out there, so I wouldn't go out of my way to reccommend it. I also neglected one of the cons of my system in my e-mail to you. It killed me to have to dump water back into my sump. I looked at the flow chart. I was really sure the hammerhead is what I needed. The flow was so overwhelming that my fish were practically stuck against the glass. The benefit is that 1 pump runs all my equipment, the problem is that I still have to dump some in the sump. Not a total waste though, I blow the bleeder into some LR and pods have been growing like crazy in that section of the sump. I also see your point on the wattage of your tunzes compared to an external pump. I just like having skimming and cooling capabilities as well as circulation. It got really hot during the blackout. I don't have experience with the pumps you've listed, so I can't say much about them. Sounds like you got a plan though. Good luck and let me know how it turns out. Thanks for posting my pics too Your opinions in the e-mail you sent were saved for me to check out and see if I can make it better.
Liquid, I'm also not familiar with the pumps you've described either, so it would not be fair for me to say if you should use them or not. I just really hate submersibles. Again, that is my preference and my way isn't always the best way.
chris

 

[loismustdie]

Disregard what I wrote to Liquid Blues. Liquid, I sent a PM, I was thinking of something else.

 

[jackson6745]

Chris, all your thought out detailed replies got you a 5 star rating from me I can see you're going to be an asset to this site

If you change that first sump chamber use the micron bags not a pad. They catch more stuff and nothing escapes. Premimum aquatics sells the big ones for 10$ each. I bought a couple and switch them out when they get dirty. A fresh water rinse in the wahing machine gets them clean. I've been reusing mine for 4 months and they sill work great.

[ February 25, 2005, 12:20 AM: Message edited by: jackson6745 ]

 

[glipper69]

if you ask me I would go with the ampmaster 3000 or 3600 awesone pumps great flow super quiet and very low power consumption. you can always put a valve on it to tune down the flow.

Good luck,
Frank

[ February 25, 2005, 12:45 AM: Message edited by: glipper69 ]

 

[LiquidBlues]

well heres the GEN PCX Series

heres the Dart

The Gen PCX 100 cost 229
The Dart cost 194

At 5ft the PCX100 goes 1500GPH
the Dart at 5ft does 2700GPH

[ February 25, 2005, 08:31 AM: Message edited by: LiquidBlues ]

 

[LiquidBlues]

I do like the Sequence Dart better

[ February 25, 2005, 08:37 AM: Message edited by: LiquidBlues ]

 

[LiquidBlues]

should i go with Dart or PCX100 as the return

sorry jackson for stealing your thread haha

 

[loismustdie]

Micron bags instead of pads... got it. I saw your rating for me jackson, much appreciated. As for the Dart, it's considered moderately low pressure. Most people don't need to pump too far. The same rules apply for any pump, minimize elbows and go with the maximum diameter pipe to the last possible point. This will give good pressure at outlets and reduce friction loss. I used a lot of flexible PVC so I only needed to use a couple of elbows. Liquid, are you planning to use the dart as a return from the sump, or on a closed loop? What about the other pump? Can your overflows handle it? Numbers that I got is that a 1 1/2" drain will handle about 1600 GPH. I'll get you a pic of my return set up. Even though I thought I ahd a great plan, there are still some things I'd do differently now.

 

[LiquidBlues]

for my MR-2 I'm going to stick with the PCX-55 because so many people recommended it

now i just need to decide for the return pump...
the PCX-55 won't do like jackson said...
so i'm probably going to go with the PCX-100 but the dart seems to be just as good or better with a cheaper price tag...

with the extra GPH i'm planning to get a TEE and have one end to the return and one to the refugium...