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Paul B

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Yes I know it's a stupid concept but if we keep fish we should try to know whats going on in their head.
For instance, do they think? Are they awake? Do they feel fear? how about pain? Are they smart?
Do they recognize us? etc. Of course I don't know the answer to any of these questions but I have an idea about many of them. No I can't read their minds but I have spent quite some time with them in their home and in mine.
If you want to get to know fish, you have to hang out with them. You have to dive to do that, and I don't mean in a tourist resort where you swim along following a guide and he slows to point out a shark or moray eel. I mean lay on the sand for an hour or so near some interesting fish so they get to know you. Then see how they make their living.
If we know what they are supposed to do, where they prefer to live, what they like to eat, how they catch their food, what they are afraid of, how they find a mate etc. maybe we will be able to house them more comfortably where they will be less prone to stress which in a fish is a major cause for disease.
I found that when I go to a tropical location I don't follow the crowd. I ask a local where I can find a person with some equipment that I could rent and someone who can take me to a decent dive site where there are no tourists.
I always find a good dive site that way away from any crowd.
Amazingly, fish are not like us. Like Duh, A lot of people mix up what a fish "likes" and what we like. Fish also have more senses than we do. We have five but fish have six. They have what some people call a remote "feel". They can actually "feel" objects that they are not touching.
They do this through the lateral line. All fish have this, it is just more pronounced on some fish than others. It starts on the head near the eyes and if you look close you will see a definate line that goes all the way to the tail. This line is actually a bunch of nerves that allow the fish to feel much better than we can with our hands.
It also allows fish to school right next to each other without ever crashing. It lets them practically fly into a coral head at the slightest provocation without getting the slightest scratch. A fish can easily swim around a tank in total darkness and not crash into rocks or even the glass.
We all know how easy they can evade a net dragged behind them. A fish with one eye has no trouble at all and gets along just as well as a fish with both eyes.
This system works like all nerves on electricity. But it is preasure that activates the nerves in the first place. Some fish have evolved to use this electricity to stun pray like stargazers, and electric eels. Other fish use it to locate food under the sand like elephantnose fish and rays.
But all fish use it for navigation, like a GPS, OK maybe not.
This reminds me of a story. I used to go to work with a blind man. He was much older than I was but totally blind. I used to meet him on the train and it was hard for me to comprehend how he walked alone to the train from his home about 1/2 mile away.
When it would snow, Jimmy would not go to work. I just figured he was afraid of falling in the snow.
One day I had to go home with him to repair something in his house and I walked him home from the train. I had never been to his house so he led the way.
As we walked past about 15 homes, he suddenly turned to walk up his walkway to his home. I had to ask him how he knew this was his walkway.
He blew me away when he said that he could "hear" the trees. I said, "excuse me". He told me that there are five trees that we passed on his block. As we pass he could hear an echo from them. After the fifth tree it is fifteen steps to his house.
When it snows, he can't hear the echo's from the trees because the snow muffled the sound and he can't go out.
Jimmy got me to think about how fish sense their surroundings. Jimmy also had no trouble helping me get around in Penn Station when the lights went out.
Anyway, thats my fish story for today. And, No, I am not the God of fish. You would be amazed at the vast almost un believable amount of information I don't know
 

Paul B

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There are all sorts of things that keep me up at night, like HLLE. I have always wondered about this but I don't know if it is the preasure from the glass or the lack of preasure from schooling fish. In the sea tangs are always inches from another tang. They swim together, eat together, turn together, and watch TV together. A tang is never alone, except in a tank.
When we keep large animals like elephants and rhino's in a zoo they often go crazy from lack of interest. I wonder if tangs experience the same thing. They must feel totally lost to be the only one of their kind in a tank just feeling the presence of the glass instead of the reassuring feel of another tang.
Schooling is intrisically imbedded in a schooling fish and can never be erased.
We also feed our tangs completely alien food. They are used to scraping barely visable algae off rocks all day. Not just one or two barely recognizable things to eat. Their digestive systems are designed to process minute amounts of food continousely, not a full stomach of lettuce or some flakes.
I hope fish can't hate because they would surely hate us.
Fish Pain is another thing I wonder about. I personally do not think fish feel pain. I have two trains of thought on this. One is kind of spiratual. Why would a fish be designed to feel pain if it is an animal that almost always dies from being eaten alive? A fish in the sea never gets the chance to die of old age. They either suffocate on the deck of a ship, die on a hook or end up as a meal for a larger fish.
The other thought is that from years of observing these slimy things and catching them I learned a lot from their actions. Many times I have caught a flounder on a hook and threw it back because it was too small just to catch the same fish a few minutes later. Even if his mouth is ripped open. I would think an animal in pain would not try to eat for a while. I also remember having a hippo tang in my fish only days. I fed the hippo a worm and as he was trying to get the thing in his mouth a triggerfish ripped the worm out of his mouth along with his entire lower jaw.
The tang didn't even notice and kept trying to eat even though he could not bite anything. He eventually died but it didn't seem to bother him at all.
I have noticed this behavour many times. Even a shark that is ripped open will not even notice but will turn and circles and eat his own intestines. This does not sound to me like an animal that can feel pain.
I know they feel something, but pain? I don't think so.
Maybe love, happiness or hemhorrids but not pain
 

masterswimmer

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Fun reads Paul. Thanks.

My thoughts on pain in fish vary. Its been documented that if a person is being attacked by a shark they stand an increased chance of survival if they can control themselves enough to poke their finger into the eye of the shark, HARD. Apparently the shark will retreat. I have seen this on various shark documentaries. If they didn't feel pain why would this happen?
 

Will C

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Fun reads Paul. Thanks.

My thoughts on pain in fish vary. Its been documented that if a person is being attacked by a shark they stand an increased chance of survival if they can control themselves enough to poke their finger into the eye of the shark, HARD. Apparently the shark will retreat. I have seen this on various shark documentaries. If they didn't feel pain why would this happen?

Agreed, a fun read

Maybe their ability to see has been greatly compromised therefore the shark cannot effectively defend itself - survival instinct.
 

Paul B

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If they didn't feel pain why would this happen?

I didn't say they didn't feel anything, I just don't think they "hurt".
I am also not 100% positive on that either but I have seen sharks eating their own intestines after being ripped open. I have even seen sharks practically cut in half still trying to eat even though the food they are eating is just falling out the ripped off end of them.
A fish was built to die by being eaten alive so I hope they don't feel pain.
I personally don't think so just from observing them for so long.
I have operated on fish to remove tumors, they wiggle but they do that even if you hold them and don't do anything.
They get scared and hide but if you wound a fish by a spear it does not seem to phase them the least unless you damage something that will kill it.
As I said, it is just an assumption.
 

Paul B

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Those canibals I am sure don't feel anything. I went SCUBA diving once and when I jumped off my boat I realized I was in a large school of blues, I couldn't even see and they were crashing into me. I figured they were going to have me for dinner but I dropped below them and just watched from below as they were eating bunker. It was really cool.
 

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