A question about the use of amino acid additives

[kroman]

For the las 12 years of keeping SPS i have never used anything and always had good growth and color. But like many i want more. 2 months ago a very experinced buddy told me how much he loved Elos Omega and Pro Skimmer. He said his growth doubled. So being a bit of a skeptic i decited to plunk down the $60 for both and give it a shot.
And 2 months later ,,,, ehh. I cant really tell if it did anything I mean it turned my water a pretty florucent yellow for 30 min until the skimmer sucks it all out but other than that i just dont see it. Granted at first i was like wow look at all that growth but i think that was my own mind just playing tricks on me.
The other thing is as far as I know most living organisims take in amino acids through ingestion not osmosis, but i could be wrong with corals anyone know?

So in the end i was wondering if anyone else uses these products and what your experince with them has been?

 

[MIKE NY]

K..I've tried AA and did nothing except give me algae blooms..

 

[kroman]

K..I've tried AA and did nothing except give me algae blooms..

Heh at least it did something for you i didnt even get those lol

 

[CHEMCHEF]

heh at least it did something for you i didnt even get those lol

lol

 

[batt600]

Ok the only reason you would dose AA or any other supplement is because your running a ULN system and the supplements are needed. If you don't dose anything on your tank then you dont have a ULN tank this means you have plenty of nutrients in your tank for your sps to feed on AA wont work in this system. What might work for you is trace elements

 

[e.muehlbauer]

What's ULN?

 

[pecan2phat]

ultra low nutrient

 

[kroman]

Ok the only reason you would dose AA or any other supplement is because your running a ULN system and the supplements are needed. If you don't dose anything on your tank then you dont have a ULN tank this means you have plenty of nutrients in your tank for your sps to feed on AA wont work in this system. What might work for you is trace elements

if you mean Ultra low nutrient by ULN then yea i definetly have that. How do i know that you may ask well over the years one other than testing for them i find that the less you have to clean the glass the less nutrients you have, I can go about 12 to 14 days before there is any green film on it.

Also my question was if anyone ever used the products and what their if they think they worked or not. Yes corals use nutrients but not as much as you think when it comes to sps. They tend to feed for their nutrients and that is something we cant not do all that well in our glass boxes. Also trace elements do not feed the coral. So i'm not all that sure what you wanted to say in your post other than not answer any of the questions i asked.

What i am really trying to find out is if corals can take in Amino acids and carbohydrates that are used for tissue production via osmosis as stated by these products.

 

[batt600]

if you mean Ultra low nutrient by ULN then yea i definetly have that. How do i know that you may ask well over the years one other than testing for them i find that the less you have to clean the glass the less nutrients you have, I can go about 12 to 14 days before there is any green film on it.

Also my question was if anyone ever used the products and what their if they think they worked or not. Yes corals use nutrients but not as much as you think when it comes to sps. They tend to feed for their nutrients and that is something we cant not do all that well in our glass boxes. Also trace elements do not feed the coral. So i'm not all that sure what you wanted to say in your post other than not answer any of the questions i asked.

What i am really trying to find out is if corals can take in Amino acids and carbohydrates that are used for tissue production via osmosis as stated by these products.

If you had a UNL system your sps will starve and loose color and fade because there are no nutrients in the tank and thay wil starve. Not even Xenia will leave in a ULN system feeding very heavy is a must ,Not the fish your sps like i dose AA, spong power, Xtra, Energy Elements 1,2,3 .And yes trace elements is important it keeps your sps healthy and they do feed on it thats why water changes are inportant. You asked about AA I answered it .It wont work for your tank . I use AA and have great color but growth plays a small part in it your water plays a big part if you keep your par at NSW conditions you will have great growth , Cal -320-380 Dkh 6-8 mag-1300-1380 P04-0.00 N03-0.00 K-350-400 . Cal has to stay at 320-380 if any higher it will affect the stability of you alk and make it unstable alot of people dont now this . If your level stay at this your growth will be great.

 

[NYreefNoob]

If you had a UNL system your sps will starve and loose color and fade because there are no nutrients in the tank and thay wil starve. Not even Xenia will leave in a ULN system feeding very heavy is a must ,Not the fish your sps like i dose AA, spong power, Xtra, Energy Elements 1,2,3

partially true, i have xenia you cant kill off, and xenia isnt a good example as 50% of people cant keepit anyways, it either does well or doesnt

one of the reasons guys use carbon source's is to help achieve low nutrients, as well as reach zero nitrates ect,

one of the bindings in color on sps is phosphates, do you have a phos checker ?

when i was heavy into the vodka, i got to where i hardly ever cleaned glass but after a period my sps started fading in color, and i started dosing AA this did help alot in bringing some of the coloring back, { basically what zeovite does } strips system and then you add it all back, basic same as carbon source's do, you do have to becareful on the amount of AA dosed as it will cause a algea outbreak, i was dosing 2 drops a night of AA.
lighting can play a ig part if what to the eye your colors appear on your corals as well.
do you have many fish in your tank ?
in all honesty i have been using the bio-pellets a little over a month and none of my tanks, reguardless of methods have gave me the results i have now, and the pellets work to reach low levels as well as work as a food source

 

[batt600]

partially true, i have xenia you cant kill off, and xenia isnt a good example as 50% of people cant keepit anyways, it either does well or doesnt

one of the reasons guys use carbon source's is to help achieve low nutrients, as well as reach zero nitrates ect,

one of the bindings in color on sps is phosphates, do you have a phos checker ?

when i was heavy into the vodka, i got to where i hardly ever cleaned glass but after a period my sps started fading in color, and i started dosing AA this did help alot in bringing some of the coloring back, { basically what zeovite does } strips system and then you add it all back, basic same as carbon source's do, you do have to becareful on the amount of AA dosed as it will cause a algea outbreak, i was dosing 2 drops a night of AA.
lighting can play a ig part if what to the eye your colors appear on your corals as well.
do you have many fish in your tank ?
in all honesty i have been using the bio-pellets a little over a month and none of my tanks, reguardless of methods have gave me the results i have now, and the pellets work to reach low levels as well as work as a food source

+1 and yeah bad example of the xenia i just used it because i had them spead like wild fire and now there almost died like 2 . And yes if use to much AA alge break will happen

 

[DrHarryLopez]

Kroman, Tell us/me about your system, how do you keep a ULNS? Do you have mainly an sps?

 

[kroman]

Kroman, Tell us/me about your system, how do you keep a ULNS? Do you have mainly an sps?

I have 2 systems both SPS with a few lps and even fewer zoas, system in my office is a 75 and a smaller in my house a 40 breeder that i have been seeding with sps from my office. the 75 is 3 years old and the 40 is 4 months old , both tanks have ati powrmodual t5 lights both use ecobak pellets both have oversized skimmers and run carbon. mp40s on the 75 and mp 10s on the 40, I dont like calcium reactors so i dose ab, 120ml a day in the 75 and 45ml in the 40,on dosing pumps so yes i have alot of growth and color been at this for quite some time. Most of you dont know me on here but i'm diverrad on RC.
my point being i dont have any issues with my tanks in fact i am very happy with both of them, batt600 seems to be confused about my question and felt the need to tell me some rather borderline numbers for parameters, thanks dude i had no idea what to keep my tanks at.

Anyway so the question still stands are corals able to use amino acids ( building blocks of protiens ) through osmosis and the same goes for carbohydrates. Both products claim this and i was just wondering if it's true, i'm not so sure it is.

 

[DrHarryLopez]

Well Kroman, (Diverrad, i seen you on RC) now that people know you are not a rookie by far, and very experienced.

Most coral can synthesis 75% of thier own essential amino acids. This is mostly by digestion with the help of the zooxanthellae converting sugars into a source of protein amino acids.

Adding AA as vitamins into the water column may or may not reach the intended target. How do they (Products) know at what concentration to dose? I believe if I can't test and measure what I'm putting into my reef I won't dose it. Just my opinion.

Harry

 

[kroman]

Thanks Harry that was what i was looking for. I'm curious though there has to have been some reasearch done on weather corals can for lack of a better term "ingest" AA and carbohydrates from the water column. If they cant it might debunk quite a few products out there

 

[Staaan]

While we're on the topics of ULNS..

A system that uses

-Large, overrated (for the tank its in) Protein Skimmer

-Reactor with either Bio Pellets or GFO?

-The above 2 for maintaining very low/undetectable Nitrates, Phosphates?

Or am I missing something here?

 

[batt600]

While we're on the topics of ULNS..

A system that uses

-Large, overrated (for the tank its in) Protein Skimmer

-Reactor with either Bio Pellets or GFO?

-The above 2 for maintaining very low/undetectable Nitrates, Phosphates?

Or am I missing something here?

Wrong you can have all that and still not be ULN , A overrated skimmer is good but how much over rated is it ?. To much is no good. You can have pellet in your tank but if not used right it will do more bad then good. GFO only help with P04 so if your overfeeding to much its not going to help.

 

[batt600]

I have 2 systems both SPS with a few lps and even fewer zoas, system in my office is a 75 and a smaller in my house a 40 breeder that i have been seeding with sps from my office. the 75 is 3 years old and the 40 is 4 months old , both tanks have ati powrmodual t5 lights both use ecobak pellets both have oversized skimmers and run carbon. mp40s on the 75 and mp 10s on the 40, I dont like calcium reactors so i dose ab, 120ml a day in the 75 and 45ml in the 40,on dosing pumps so yes i have alot of growth and color been at this for quite some time. Most of you dont know me on here but i'm diverrad on RC.
my point being i dont have any issues with my tanks in fact i am very happy with both of them, batt600 seems to be confused about my question and felt the need to tell me some rather borderline numbers for parameters, thanks dude i had no idea what to keep my tanks at.

Anyway so the question still stands are corals able to use amino acids ( building blocks of protiens ) through osmosis and the same goes for carbohydrates. Both products claim this and i was just wondering if it's true, i'm not so sure it is.

Ok to answer your question better your corals are like every other living thing here we need cal, mag, AA , Vit A, B , C in ower body to make us healthy all this for stonger bones and to make us healthy and grow . So this is the same resone are coral need this to make them more colorerfull and be healthy. But to much of it is a bad thing . Kroman how long did you dose the AA ? . I have a 75g Sps tank with great color and growth .Im not trying to say you dont now nothing just trying to help But i us Elos AA and i see the differnce from using it .

 

[kroman]

Ok to answer your question better your corals are like every other living thing here we need cal, mag, AA , Vit A, B , C in ower body to make us healthy all this for stonger bones and to make us healthy and grow . So this is the same resone are coral need this to make them more colorerfull and be healthy. But to much of it is a bad thing . Kroman how long did you dose the AA ? . I have a 75g Sps tank with great color and growth .Im not trying to say you dont now nothing just trying to help But i us Elos AA and i see the differnce from using it .

lol ok man i'm glad you know everything....
since your knowlage is so vast perhaps you can tell us all how do you know that the AA your dumping in your tank is actually being used by the corals? also how do you know that the dosing your are using is correct? do you turn off the skimmer when you dose because guess what it dose skimm it out.

I only dosed AA and the pro skimmer carbohydrates for 2 months and i only did it on my 40G, no real change my corals grew very well and had zeovit like colors before during and after, in otherwords no change, there was nothing wrong in the first place so i was looking for improvment, there was none. I'm a little pshycotic about my tank so i do weekly water changes have only 2 small fish that i starve and clean all my equipment once a month, if my water was not salty you could drink it.

 

[DrHarryLopez]

I'm a little pshycotic about my tank so i do weekly water changes have only 2 small fish that i starve and clean all my equipment once a month, if my water was not salty you could drink it.

I find that the most established reefs get weekly water changes too, so your right in sync with the best. I'm trying to make a setup for easy quick water changes with a water system. Currently i do water changes evry 7-10 days.