Why do same species fight?

[ryangrieder]

I'm kind of curious on why same species fight? I understand territory issues and ect but why else? For instant, angels. Smaller tanks around 125g and under recommend only one angel or they will fight to the death... Why? I know some other fish do it too like certain Tangs and all but whats the general reason? You see in the ocean all these fish schooling and swimming together, yet in tanks it cant happen? What if you had a 100g tank and got a male coral beauty and female, would they also fight? Would it be less of a chance to fight if it was male and female? Just curious...

 

[beerfish]

I'm kind of curious on why same species fight? I understand territory issues and ect but why else? For instant, angels. Smaller tanks around 125g and under recommend only one angel or they will fight to the death... Why? I know some other fish do it too like certain Tangs and all but whats the general reason? You see in the ocean all these fish schooling and swimming together, yet in tanks it cant happen? What if you had a 100g tank and got a male coral beauty and female, would they also fight? Would it be less of a chance to fight if it was male and female? Just curious...

STIMPY YOU EEEEEIIIIIIDIOT!!!!!

Ok, now that I got that out of the way...

In the ocean, there are plenty of resources available to schools of fish, but in a small space, members of the same species (or even the same body shape), often feel that they need to compete for the available resources.

Fish don't have the capacity to think... "Hey, this guy comes over and brings food every day", or "I might need the hiding space that Bob over there is sulking in". So in order to provide themselves the best chance of survival, they eliminate the competition.

 

[ryangrieder]

STIMPY YOU EEEEEIIIIIIDIOT!!!!!

Ok, now that I got that out of the way...

In the ocean, there are plenty of resources available to schools of fish, but in a small space, members of the same species (or even the same body shape), often feel that they need to compete for the available resources.

Fish don't have the capacity to think... "Hey, this guy comes over and brings food every day", or "I might need the hiding space that Bob over there is sulking in". So in order to provide themselves the best chance of survival, they eliminate the competition.

Yes, ren & stumpy is one if the best old time cartoon haha

Now I understand that completely, but say you have an angel, and you add another angel, and they think that and try to kill the competition, why not they to kill all the other tank mates?

 

[KathyC]

What if you had a 100g tank and got a male coral beauty and female, would they also fight? Would it be less of a chance to fight if it was male and female? Just curious...

First off keep in mind what a fishes life is all about, eating to sustain life & reproducing. They are territorial because they are protecting the area they plan to spawn in and raise their fry...

It depends on the species but it is often suggested that one purchases a 'harem' of fish as fish spawning activity can be rather rough on the female fish. If you have 2 or 3 females to a single (as in one, not marital status..lol) male, the brunt of the males spawning activity is not limited to a single fish, so the other females have a chance to escape his attention and recover somewhat between attempts.
There are quite a number of fish that you can add a M/F pair and have no issue with spawning activity and they can be very complimentary to each other in a properly sized tank. Clown fish, Mandarins and many wrasses are an excellent example of this.

It all depends on the type of fish. Some can change sex so... poof instead of having 2 males, you have a M/F pair, some are difficult to sex, others easy. Lots of variables with fish

Research will usually get you a fairly good answer but keep in mind that many SW fish have yet to be bred in captivity, so the answer may not be easy to find for some species.

 

[ryangrieder]

Thanks Kathy. Well explained answer.

Now they say the larger the tank, the more chance to live, do to more to graze and all, but would you considder that the same as having a smaller tank and real small angels? I don't mean too small of a tank that its unfair for an angel, but i mean like say a 50 gallon or so, and the angels were around quarter size. Wouldn't that be the same as adding a few inch angel and another few inch angel into a larger tank?

 

[KathyC]

Thanks Kathy. Well explained answer.

Now they say the larger the tank, the more chance to live, do to more to graze and all, but would you considder that the same as having a smaller tank and real small angels? I don't mean too small of a tank that its unfair for an angel, but i mean like say a 50 gallon or so, and the angels were around quarter size. Wouldn't that be the same as adding a few inch angel and another few inch angel into a larger tank?

Thanks Ryan

I know of no angels that are quarter sized. You ALWAYS need to think of fish at their full grown size in regard to what size tank they are going into. I don't believe in the school of thought of..well I'll move them when they get bigger.

That said, I'm not sure I am understanding your question entirely...are you asking if the chances of them getting along are better when they are small?
Yes, younger fish stand a better chance of getting along better - but that can lead to 2 other possibilities, they can become nastier as they get older and end up trying to kill each other OR you can end up with 2 fish of the same sex as young fish are sometimes difficult to sex.

Not sure if I really answered your question

 

[ryangrieder]

Well to be honest with you, and I know it was a real bad idea, but I'm in this situation. I own a caribbean pygmy angel. No joke, it's the size of a nickel/quarter. Had him for a few weeks now, and the guy before me got it almost dime sized 2 months before i got it. Today, long story, I ended up taking a unidentified angel. I believe its possibly a baby rock beauty angel. It's neon orange/yellow with blue eyes, a small black circle on it's upper rear side of the body with a neon blue ring around it. It is the same size as a nickel when i saw him in the bucket. My bio cube recently broken down, and I only have the 46 gallon bow. I put the angel into the tank with the pygmy angel. Took about 15 minutes to find each other. Once the Pygmy found the rock beauty, they had like a stare off. The stopped swimming and stared at each other without moving for about 3 minutes and did not move. I also recently added some random plants for my angel and tang to nip at. The rock beauty finally swam away and instantly went into the huge portion I had and started eating it. The pygmy never touched this caulerpa that i have. No joke it saw the rock beauty eating it, and dittoed him. Started ripping away on it. Then the pygmy swam back over to his usual hiding spot that he has in a cave, and the rock beauty followed him, and now they both currently sit next to each other, not moving about an inch away since I turned the light of. Im hoping this is a good thing??? If not, its no big deal because in a day or so im taking out my hippo and giving him away to a friend and can catch the rock beauty when i catch the hippo if they end up fighting. But, since they are so small, could they possibly not care about each other or maybe even like each other? Is so odd because these guys are no joke extremely small. My damsel, average size like any other, maybe an inch, is bigger then both these angels. And these angels are both pigs and very active.

Do you think its a bad idea to leave them be if they get along? Granted i know when they grow overtime they both will come out, but still. Thats going to take quite a while seeing their current size...

 

[KathyC]

lol, I knew there was a back-story to this thread...

How about this...can you post the best pic you can get of the unidentified angel? Hold off on making your decision to remove the fish until we know for sure what type it is?
Nice they are getting along so well right now. Nothing is ever 100% written in stone when it comes to fish, I've seen some odd pairings get along very well..when they shouldn't have. Go figure.
I would get the hippo out of there though..good idea!

 

[basiab]

If you look at any online site selling fish they all tell you not to put 2 dwarf angels in one tank. One of them even warns you that they will not accept the order unless you tell them it is for separate tanks.

 

[ryangrieder]

Yes when I get home from college ill snap a pic. My girlfriend just told me she was looking at the tank a few minutes ago and both angels and just grazing off the same piece of lr that has a little piece of algae on it, and she just fed the tank and both ate again, then swam back into the cave they originally were hiding in.

And yes the hippo is going to my buddy. It is about 2 inches and have had him for maybe...4 months now. Another fish I got quarter size. Even though its still real small, I figure he will like my buddies 180g reef better...

Sent From My HTC Incredible Using Reefs.

 

[ryangrieder]

alright, this fish is way to fast so sorry but was unable to take a clear pic. you can kind of see the blue ring on his chest and eye a little though. he is just so fast and kind of skidish since its his first day in tank. but in this pic, so you know, those rocks around him are only the size of my fist. thats how small he is compared to them...

 

[ryangrieder]

well, i can say now it is a rock beauty. i looked them up and found this pic. it looks 100% like him but more orange...