The Lightning Project - Matt Pedersen (Appointed Breeder)

mpedersen

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Hey matt can u post some pics of the lightning clown ?

Sure thing!

Pairing attempt the other day:


From last week when I tweaked the Ecoxotic's lighting.



From the initial introduction of the proven male mate (note the damage to the Lightning Maroon...healed in the later images I posted above):



The results of their first pairing attempt back in April...



The damage the Lighting suffered from the Pygmy Angelfish when it got out of it's 360 safety cage while I was out speaking across the country - was legitimately concerned this would not heal back in March...this was 2 weeks after the damage had been sustained.



Clearly, it's been a crazy ride and it continues to be. It could all end up a puff of fish death without warning...had that happen to an actively spawning female Ocellaris...just showed up dead one morning (presumably egg bound, but hard to say).
 

RARECLOWNSNJ

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Matt,
My only concern is what you laid out your explanation for, it was the keeping the clown a male. We differ on that aspect.

I would have let it turn female and then asked Mark for a small one from the same location. and just thrown in a captive bred to pass the time.

In the end its all about our opinions and past expeirences, which we all have different and which is why i dont understand the attack this guy let off.

You know i got lots of respect for you and what you have done for Marine Breeders. Thats why i cant beleive someone would do this. Its one of those people who offered lots of money for the fish and lost out.

Thats why you havent accpeted my facebook request!!!

Dont sweat it sir, and accept my request lol
 

mpedersen

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Matt,
My only concern is what you laid out your explanation for, it was the keeping the clown a male. We differ on that aspect.

Ah, gotcha. Not to rehash the point, but if the fish was already "female", then yeah, keeping it as a "male" would've been stupid.

Yes, it was also more risky to keep it as a male for the same precise reasons that pairing it now with a known proven male is difficult...females can be rough on their males (in the White Stripe Maroon world). Murder is not uncommon.

That said, the flipside was in the fact that it was likely a male and that pairing with a female would presumably be a shorter route to offspring vs. waiting for it to turn female. That, and that a male clownfish can be paired up with any other clownfish you may stumble across, whereas if it was turned female, and later on a female lightning maroon was found and made its way to me, I couldn't pair the two fish up. Keeping it as a male, they could theoretically be paired.

I would have let it turn female and then asked Mark for a small one from the same location. and just thrown in a captive bred to pass the time.

And if I didn't publicly state it in the blog, in fact, there was requests not only for more females from Fisherman's Island, but also for smaller males than the ones I had been shipped the first time around. Obviously, even today, if I could get my hands on a smaller male from Fisherman's Island than the ones I have now, I'd jump at it.

And still, when there was no suitable PNG female around, I did in essense give it another maroon to pass the time with...the labrador. Nothing came of it, but there was no harm in trying.

Of course, in the end, those who said "make it female" have gotten their way. With many of the reasons I was keeping it male now off the table, going female was the right choice to move forward in a timely fashion.

In the end its all about our opinions and past expeirences,

And perhaps goals...

which we all have different and which is why i dont understand the attack this guy let off.

Well if the goal was to simply produce offspring from the Lightning Maroon by any means necessary, which is what I would expect an amateur to want, then by all means I can see the viewpoint and understand the motivation and criticism. And in that regard by all means, his/her right to make those critiques.

You know i got lots of respect for you and what you have done for Marine Breeders. Thats why i cant beleive someone would do this. Its one of those people who offered lots of money for the fish and lost out.

I have a few theories on who it actually might be, and honestly no, I don't think it's someone who bid and lost since I know a fair amount of those people and actually recommended many of those same people to act as custodians of the fish. One hunch is that it could be a vendor who I've privately called into question based on concerns and inconsistencies, and in that respect, I should probably just talk to that vendor myself about my concerns given the number of inquiries that have been made to me about them. Of course, when making my private comments and questions, I've said I would not be opposed to those views being shared, so in that regard, there was a passive invitation to chat with me directly if so inclined.

However, the most plausible explanation - simply someone who, based on the types of fish you all suggest he's out looking for, is probably a newer hobbyist and, if a current or future breeder, is coming at it from the quick dollar standpoint. I suppose no better way to make a name for yourself by bursting into the scene being wildly critical of an experienced breeder ;)

Thats why you havent accpeted my facebook request!!!

Dont sweat it sir, and accept my request lol

Have we shaken hands yet? Find me at MACNA LOL! Seriously, if I don't recognize your face and name, and know where I've met ya, I tend to shy away from a FB request. Nothing personal, but since I share more than just fish stuff on there, I just am a bit more guarded about who I "let in".
 

mpedersen

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Ha! Eric indeed, I was doing aquariums back then too. It was the Florida mealies that wiped me out and cause me to cease sales (as I described in my "rebuttle post" over on the Lighting Project). The Ag inspectors weren't terribly helpful either (not knocking them, they were very good people to work with), they just said "yup, those are the tough ones" - the ironic part being that the control mechanisms I was using, that weren't working, where actually enough to satisfy them to green light ongoing sales of plants (if I had been devious enough to sell infested plants). The few orchids that survived the mealies that came up from Florida are still doing well years later. That was a true disaster, and I'd say when half the plants were gone I just gave up trying to fight it and focused on manually clearing only the most special plants...i.e. Paul Eugene Conroy 'Four Kings' is probably the most awardable plant I ever owned, and the one time I tried to bring it for judging I got the dates mixed up and missed the show by a week. It's still alive and well, and maybe someday it'll get the recognition it deserves when the right combination of blooming and orchid show in the region come together. Or I'll just enjoy it as is.

The mealy disaster was the equivalent of getting some copper-immune Amyloodinium in a commercial hatchery or other virulent disease that you can't control with normal remedies. In the Cichlid world, we had Cryptobia, which necessitated the euthanasia of all the fish in the tank (we weren't on central systems thank God), followed by a bleaching, as it was the early stages when no one knew what it was or of any treatment. For the mealies, I had been given some recommendations for $300 to $400 treatments that would've knocked back the Mealies in my home / under-lights growing, but I was being stubborn and convinced I could get a handle on things without that investment. Hindsight, a $400 investment to save a $17,000 loss, I was very, very stupid. Definitely took the wind out of my sails for a bit, but again, resigned me to the fact that there is no substitute for a dedicated culture space when it comes to orchids, that being a greenhouse or dedicated room perhaps. All valuable lessons I carry with me with whatever I intend to propagate, which for the past several years has been marines, largely because it needs to be done. I still have space planned for some Victorian Cichlids as my fishroom expands....it won't all be marines ;)
 

RARECLOWNSNJ

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Lol its funny u said that cause i said something to him about about a post u did on marine breeddrs and he looked at me like i was nuts.

Lol whose close were in the little tank on their table then.
 

mpedersen

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Lol its funny u said that cause i said something to him about about a post u did on marine breeddrs and he looked at me like i was nuts.

There's a reason some folks have simply referred to us as "The Matts". He's far surpassed me as a breeder in so many respects - I truly did say, when they told me I'd won the MASNA award, that he really deserved it and asked if I could defer to him instead. Steve Allen wouldn't let me, but it all worked out. I got to hand him the award he so deserved last fall in Orlando. Universe sorted it out.

Lol whose close were in the little tank on their table then.

Close? You mean clowns? No clue, but I'm sure if the records are still up on the MOFIB website, you could figure it out.
 

e.muehlbauer

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The mealies were that bad...wow! I am in a constant battle with them, mainly in the plants under lights. I only use pyrethrin or alcohol...afraid of poisoning my cats. But I do find that summers outdoors greatly reduce their numbers....they're strictly indoor pests.
 

mpedersen

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The mealies were that bad...wow! I am in a constant battle with them, mainly in the plants under lights. I only use pyrethrin or alcohol...afraid of poisoning my cats. But I do find that summers outdoors greatly reduce their numbers....they're strictly indoor pests.

Yeah, that bad. They'd get down towards the crown and leaves would drop from the bottom up. The plants I saved were saved with Alcohol and Q-Tips and lots of vigilance. Environmental conditions didn't really seem to correct things (in the summer, everything was open as there was no AC...lots of airflow - things grew great before they showed up). Basically, what it boils down to was the prophylactic routine application of pesticides by some grower, which in turn created nicely resistant strains that couldn't be knocked out. Basically, it was a classic epidemic where it ends with all the hosts dead, and that's how the mealies disappeared...nothing left to eat.

Indeed, I too was afraid of poisoning not only my cat, but myself as well. If I had a greenhouse or dedicated space, I could've shut it off and done some serious treatment to get things back under control.
 

mpedersen

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I'd say it can easily get to be on par with a moderately sized reef tank...if you let it. Not as equipment intensive, but truthfully I got away with being "lucky", having an ideal growing climate in my home at the time without having to do much for light or humidity. When we moved in Chicago, we were in a new situation with no natural light...that didn't help one bit.

Average cost per plant is probably $20 but easily up to $60 without much hesitation (and yes, there are plants that cost $1000's), at least in the stuff I was breeding. The nice thing about the Orchid Hobby - if you're set up right, a 3-4 day trip doesn't require anyone coming in, and in the grand scheme of things, asking someone to water plants is far less worrying than asking someone to watch 20 fish tanks. Again, far less to go wrong in the Orchid world.
 
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