Cycling w/out LR

[Awibrandy]

Hi guys/gals

Can a tank be cycled without LR or sand? How long should it take?

75 gallon AGA tank
Running 2 110 Aqua Clear HOB filters with sponges (soaked in my 155's sump for a couple of weeks)
Ebo Jager heater
Duo air pump
1 power head
Bunch of plastic corals & PVC parts

Ammonia finally at 0
Nitrite off the chart
Nitrate off the chart
Both trite & trate have been off the chart for well over a month.

I feed the tank a few pellets once or twice a week.

I had poured several bottles(at least 3)of "Bacterial Supplement", and 1 "Biozyme" early on.

Tank is set up as a guaranteeing/hospital holding tank. No LR because this tank has had copper in it in the past.

 

[ming]

In theory, it could. But surfaces is where the bacteria attaches to and most of that is rocks and sand. The Bio-wheel usually contains a lot of bacteria, but any additional sponge filter will also greatly help with surface area for bacteria for the cycle.

Basically, your tank might be cycled, but the Bioload limit might be smaller then normal before ammonia builds up and doesn't go away.

But since its a hospital tank, and unless you're going to be holding large or a lot of fish, its probably going to be fine.

 

[Awibrandy]

But since its a hospital tank, and unless you're going to be holding large or a lot of fish, its probably going to be fine.

Thank you for replying Ming! Much appreciated. The Aqua Clear 110 do not have the "Bio Wheels".

Not sure I understand the above quote.:scratchch The tank did have a huge ammonia spike that seemed to have taken for ever to go away, but it did.
Now it's the trites & trates that are not budging.
I can't use sand or LR because this tank has been medicated in the past, and most likely will be again. Hopefully not, but if a fish requires medication this is where it will be done.

 

[ohana888]

the bacteria need surface area to live. i have extra bio-stars. they've never been used with meds. they're good for nitrite bacteria colonization b/c they're black & thick with micro pores. just keep them out of strong water flow. they float, but you can put them in a mesh bag & weight them down with a rock. lmk.

 

[Awibrandy]

the bacteria need surface area to live. i have extra bio-stars. they've never been used with meds. they're good for nitrite bacteria colonization b/c they're black & thick with micro pores. just keep them out of strong water flow. they float, but you can put them in a mesh bag & weight them down with a rock. lmk.

Thanks ohana888
I was hoping the bacteria would've attached to the plastic corals as they are not made of smooth surface. I guess I was wrong.:headache:

Ummmmm, can they just float around in the tank? There is no sump on this tank.

 

[ohana888]

surface bacteria is good for ammonia, but nitrite & nitrate bacteria need low flow, low O2, & darkness - like the middle of LR. floating will expose more O2. best to leave in dark corner with little or low flow. =) you can also cut back on the food until nitrite & nitrate are under control. OR have a handy bottle of PRIME ready. btw, did the new stand arrive yet? how are the frags holding up?

 

[Awibrandy]

Will sinking them in a mesh bag in a back corner of the tank it self work?
Frags are doing great.
No stand yet.. Perhaps tomorrow. My friend is off on Mondays & Thursdays, but they also had a baby so might be a bit busy. I don't want to put pressure on him.
I couldn't take delivery of it over the holidays due to family visiting, and 6 grands over as well.

 

[CHEMCHEF]

Awi. Just put some bio ball or bio aqua clear media (white short ceramic like tubes,, sort of looks like ditalini pasta) The bacteria will colonize there. Some love rock in the filters will help also.

 

[ohana888]

Will sinking them in a mesh bag in a back corner of the tank it self work?

worked for me in FW - should be the same in SW - figuring the bacteria strains are all the same. it could be placed anywhere with no direct flow & low light. another good commercial product is SEACHEM MATRIX (high flow) or de*NITRATE (low flow).

 

[mbg75]

If the aqua clear pads were in your other tank for a few weeks then they should have the bacteria on them..
I ran my qt tank bare with just an aquaclear...
If your ammonia went up and back to 0 then u are cycling and once nitrite drops u good to go.
A water change will help.

Always keep a new filter sponge in your main tank so if u ever need to start up the hospital tank again, your ready to go. Usually 6 weeks to colonize the sponge.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

 

[ming]

Completely normal for the Ammonia to go away. That was part of the cycle. But if Nitrite is still off the charts, you're half way through the cycle. Once this goes down to zero, your cycle is complete. Nitrates are removed with water changes. Bacteria will colonize on pretty much any surface, so plastic plants and such will work, but it won't be as effective as a bio-wheel. (I mis-read and thought you had one). Pretty much all surfaces will be covered with bacteria, but rough surfaces are better
Hope that helps.

 

[Awibrandy]

mbg75, thank you for your reply. Yes, the ammonia climbed, came down, but the trites & trates are not budging. It's been at least 3 weeks with no change. I have no intention of shutting this tank down. I will keep it running with the filters, although I will disconnect the PW, air pump & heater.

ohanna, I will give the bio-stars a try. Don't want to use artificial things like the seachem product.

 

[Awibrandy]

Completely normal for the Ammonia to go away. That was part of the cycle. But if Nitrite is still off the charts, you're half way through the cycle. Once this goes down to zero, your cycle is complete. Nitrates are removed with water changes. Bacteria will colonize on pretty much any surface, so plastic plants and such will work, but it won't be as effective as a bio-wheel. (I mis-read and thought you had one). Pretty much all surfaces will be covered with bacteria, but rough surfaces are better
Hope that helps.

Yes, quite helpful Ming! That is what I thought, which I why I threw everything I could think off in the tank.lol
Guess it will just take alot longer then usual.:fish:

 

[ming]

Also, if you ever clean the aquaclear filters, don't clean them both the same day so bacteria has a chance to recolonize before the other one is cleaned.

 

[Awibrandy]

Also, if you ever clean the aquaclear filters, don't clean them both the same day so bacteria has a chance to recolonize before the other one is cleaned.

Absolutely!!

Learned 40+ years ago: Never clean tank (water change) & change out filter pads at the same time.:lol_large

 

[ohana888]

mbg75, thank you for your reply. Yes, the ammonia climbed, came down, but the trites & trates are not budging. It's been at least 3 weeks with no change. I have no intention of shutting this tank down. I will keep it running with the filters, although I will disconnect the PW, air pump & heater.

ohanna, I will give the bio-stars a try. Don't want to use artificial things like the seachem product.

the matrix (larger) & de*nitrate (smaller) look like rubble rock but with more internal surface area for bacteria colonization. bio-stars are polymer and function the same, but float. =)

 

[skene]

out of all curiousity... but why keep the tank nearly empty? You do want to keep something where the fish can hide to.. even if you only threw in a porous lava rock, it would probably not be as stressful to the fish that will be kept in it. Otherwise you can always go and use fresh water gravel. That way bacteria can still colonize in the tank and still continue when the tank is not being utilized for QT.

 

[KathyC]

I had poured several bottles(at least 3)of "Bacterial Supplement", and 1 "Biozyme" early on.

This is why your nitrites & nitrates are so high, these products are LOADED with them.

I would do a water change to reduce them somewhat and also add an additional surface for them to live on..like the ceramix tubes you can add to the filter or the star things the other reefer mentioned.

You should see rapid improvement by doing these this.

 

[Awibrandy]

Skene, the tank is not empty. It has a ton of artificial (plastic) corals, and PVC pieces. I do like the idea of the gravel though.

Kathy, I did do a major water change once the ammonia had gone to zero. The water change caused the ammonia to go back up a bit, and no effect on the trites or trates. Now that 2nd. ammonia spike went away, but the trites & trates are still off the chart.

Ohana, I will take you up on the bio-stars. Thanks buddy......

 

[Awibrandy]

I put a handful of chaeto in the tank, and that has made a difference. Trites & trates moved down a bit. Trates went down more then the trites though. Hope they go down by next week.